What is the fairest way to pick which 7 girls get in when there is an entire troop of 19 girls trying to join ours because the leaders quit?
No other moms are willing to even be assistant leaders so we are maxed out with 7 more. We thought the first 7 with completed paperwork, but that seems unfair to working moms. There are rules about the number of girls per adult so 7 is the max. Plus, we are cramped in the scout room and could not even squeeze 19 more in if we wanted to.
Added: Tulsa is my hometown. I don't want their leaders reflected on poorly,
For two years the service unit has been looking for new leaders for this troop. They claim to have at least 600 on a waiting list and actually asked us to lead an entire second troop already. We are NOT doing that. They are fully aware of the situation and to be honest, they run people off.
Every time we volunteer to help do x, they ask us to do y and z as well. Then they say "Oh, would you like to take over the entire event every year?" We do not have time to do that and say no, but many moms do NOTHING because once they see you will do something, they want you to do everything.
Plus, what are they paying those people for? We see volunteers doing all the work and the employees occasionally helping.
I love the idea of making people help. I just have to convince my coleader it might actually work. We are planners. I can give them a month's notice to prepare parts to a craft for example.
Give a deadline to complete the paperwork, and then explain the situation to everyone (you might get some assistant leader volunteers). Then have a drawing on a certain day and draw 7 names from the list of completed paperwork.
It's possible that the moms of the kids that don't get in may volunteer so you can open it up for more!
Good luck!
The fairest way is to do this on a lottery basis BUT to be fair to YOU and your current troop., think long and hard about this. You are adding 7 more girls, which means more work for you and as you said, limitations. If that doesn't affect you at the meetings it may come when you want to go somewhere or during cookie sales. If the parents don't want to volunteer, think about how this is going to affect You, Your current Girls and Families.
I'd only take 7 more with the contingency that their parents register, are cleared as volunteers and drive AND sign up to do something, even if it is a small such as put together your phone tree, field trip folders, etc.....
Been there done that. Don't do it. Don't take any. I merged with a troop WITH another leader, which was all good, but a year after that took in ANOTHER troop whose leaders quit. Stupidly I took them in, mostly because one of the girls was my neighbor. Some of the parents became pretty nasty; apparently I wasn't fit to be around children. Huh? I volunteer MY time to pretty much babysit your little angel who doesn't really want to be there anyway, takes off to run around the school building after hours and I'M the bad one. No. I don't think so.
If you really don't want to turn your back (and good for you if you don't), REQUIRE that a parent (M. OR Dad) sign on to take on one role and at least ONE road trip. By the way, both situations require that the parent(s) register as Adult Scouts. Best way to determine commitment.
I'm still a Girl Scout leader - my girls are heading into 10th - and I love each and every one. My troop consists of the girls whose families are supportive and can lend a hand, or are not able to lend a hand (time and money constraints, usually single moms) but are still very supportive. I've learned to do a lot on my own. The girls benefit hugely. But its a lot of work on my part. Just a heads up.
And thank you for being committed to the girls. You're the best!
Give a deadline for paperwork and randomly draw 7 names. That is truly the fairest way to decide. Although if I were you, I'd make sure any trouble makers from the last group didn't make the cut.
Pull names out of a hat?
Have you explained to the moms that are trying to get in that without leaders they are not all getting in? I have found moms like to hedge their bets by stepping forward when there is a chance their daughter will be one of the ones left out.
I think the non-helping parent epidemic is nation wide. Giving specific choices of duties may encourage volunteers. And starting small, like asking for snack helpers, etc. Sometimes people are intimidated by commitment just because they don't know exactly what's required of them.
For the kids to get into the troop I would start with a paperwork deadline followed by a lottery, i.e., "seven girls will be chosen at random from those with paperwork completed by September 10th" Good luck!
Ughhh- I hate to hear this! Every parent wants all these activities to be available to their little darlings but only a SMALL perecentage want to help with them. I see this all the time. And then these parents have the nerve to be demanding. PArents who do not volunteer with any of their kids activities but expect them to be available for them should be ashamed of themselves. There is NO excuse in the world that is good enough for me. There is always something that every parent can do within their specific litnitations, be it time or physical.
Kay, what I would do is open it only to kids whose parents will agree to helping with the troop. Those children are the only ones that I would let in. Additionally I would make this a mandate for all scouts since space seems to be so limitied in your area. You should make up a list of all duties and then assign them or post them for parents to choose.
My first question would be, why did the leaders quit? Was it because of some of the parents? If so, you will inherit the same issues. Out of 19 girls, there are NO parents willing to step up? That seems kind of odd, but if it's true, I wouldn't be willing to take on any new members. It sounds like you are going to be adding a lot of headaches with this group.
In our school, they wouldn't take them. It pretty much is this is our group of 12 girls and the next group coming up had to find their own leader. This has happened 3 times, and you know what, those groups eventually had moms that did step up when forced to. So I would say, " sorry, we are full and can't support another troop but we will help whoever wants to lead that troop however we can in getting things started." Of course if it was a case of a lone girl moving in, then they would take her, but not an entire or portion of a defunct troop.
And we just moved to another area and wanted to continue being Brownies. We were told that there was no 3rd grade troop right now so unless we start one than we can't join. We couldn't join the 2nd grade troop already formed. It is sad, but from what I hear, Girl Scout troops aren't as easy to create as Boy Scouts, and I learned that first hand when we started Daisies a few years back. Good luck.
HONESTLY?
How about a little bit of extra work up front, to avoid some crazy work later on?
In SoCal in the 80's the GSC was practically greeting people at the door with boiling oil and whips. So a sort of underground thing happened.
The GSC was driving off potential leaders, so the existing leaders called an "Everyone interested in Scouting" meeting at my middleschool.
The existing leaders offered training, help with paperwork, ongoing mentoring for new leaders.
We went from hardly any to a HUGE number of troops. (Like from 5-60, but these are remember numbers, not actual numbers). GS became THE thing to do in the area. Most people really WANTED to help... they just never scouted themselves, didn't know what to do, felt really unsure/incapable, and then any scrap of confidence they might have had was ground out by the supercilious attitudes of the GSC who was SUPPOSED to be doing what the existing troop M.'s stepped up to organize.
You've got 19 existing kids, and probably a LOT more who would like to, but there's no space to start. If you can get parents on board, it will be a lot of extra work the first few months (our leaders actually had us HELP... as part of our leadership training... we'd devote 1 week a month to 'New Troop Mentoring'), and then things will start to be managed on their own.
As a GS leader, I feel for you, though I've never been in this exact situation. I would say that it's not fair to insist that the girls whose moms can volunteer will get in -- that is unfair to girls whose moms work or have other commitments that mean they just can't volunteer for GS.
ADDED based on SWH and other posts: I would tread very carefully if you pursue the idea of absolutely REQUIRING parents to volunteer as a condition of their girls being accepted. Once girls are accepted you can surely then tell parents, "We expect all parents to do one task each year, such as to prepare parts for a craft etc." The expectation, and some peer pressure from other parents, goes a long way toward making that happen, I find. But making it a condition of acceptance doesn't seem like the GS way to me -- there will always be girls who through no fault of their own have parents who just cannot or will not help out, and it's penalizing those girls to make their parents' participation a condition of the girls' being part of the group. I'm a leader too so I know it's a pain if parents want the world and won't help out -- but should that be the basis for excluding a child? If a girl is accepted because a parent says "I'll do X" and then the parent doesn't do it, either because she's a slacker or because something really does happen -- would you then tell that girl she must leave the troop because M. did not do X? That would be the logical and "fair" next step if parent volunteering is made an absolute condition of girl membership. I would really talk to a SU or Council person about this if I were you (see below). This is why I would really advocate a lottery or random draw from among girls whose registrations were done by a specific date.
Back to original post:
I would set a date for all paperwork to be in, and then do a random pick of seven girls out of those who have their paperwork turned in at that time. It seems like the only fair way. I'm not sure why you're worried that requiring completed paperwork somehow penalizes girls who have working moms -- working moms can get the paperwork filled out by a deadline the same as those who stay at home.
BUT -- before you do anything-- Have you contacted your GS Service Unit director, or your local GS council, for help and advice here? Your Service Unit may have other leaders who have been in this same position who can advise you better than any of us can. And your SU or Council may actually have some guidelines on this situation for you.
Most of all, your SU and Council should be actively working with the former leaders of the other troop to place all 19 of these girls if they all want to continue in Scouting. It is very sad if these leaders quit and did nothing to help their girls move into other troops; the SU and Council can't help unless these departing leaders contacted them. There surely are troops out there who could take a few girls here, a few girls there -- there is NO reason why yours is the only troop in the entire area these girls can get into! If the issue is "we all go to the same school and we want a troop AT school" -- remember, "school-based troops" are just a convenience and not mandatory, despite misperceptions by many parents and girls that GS is school-based. Girls do not have to be in a troop that is composed of schoolmates. The parents should be made aware of that, and also of the fact that the troop leaders (you) do have the right in GS to decide on the size of their own troops, based on what the leaders feel they can handle.
There may be other leaders in your SU who very much want some new girls but could not take on 12 at once.
If you take seven, that leaves a dozen girls -- that is enough for an entirely new troop! Talk now to your council and SU about possibly finding a leader for them and about how to absorb the seven you feel you can take. You do not have to handle this situation alone!
This sounds like a very difficult and frustrating situation. I think that making it be the first 7 to turn in their paperwork is a good idea. BUT, you need to make it accessible to working moms. So, give them the papers during the week, but don't allow them to turn them in until something like noon on Saturday (they can drop it at your house). The first 7 to come with 100% completed paperwork get in. If they can't be the one to come in person, allow them to send a friend/family member to submit the paperwork on their behalf.
For the 12 that don't get in, encourage one or two of them to be an additional leader. Say that you would love to accept all 19 girls and the only thing stopping you is moms willing to volunteer. Show them the rules so they know you aren't being selective. Also, look into other options for where to hold your meetings if too many girls end up joining.
I would TELL the moms if they do not volunteer then you will end up picking the girls out of a hat or something. I can never understand why people just do not step up. Its always the same moms. Or tell them its full already and to start a new troop.
