Heartbroken - Frisco,TX

You are clearly not happy and you do not think things can/will change. That leaves you with one choice. Good luck:)

I just went back over your previous questions ... my dear, it's time to move on. Your husband is an abusive jerk and he's not going to change. It also sounds like he has no respect for women in general. And for God's sake, DON'T needle him with your child in your arms, you are asking for trouble and you should know better.

Good luck. Give your son a better future. Hugs.

You are in counseling so I won't go there regarding the bigger situation. However, I must point out something that you may not see.

While your husband is completely in the wrong for his behavior, and I find it horrendous that he said those things to you and your son... what you said was not (in my opinion) the proper approach, either.
Yes, saying something to your son to "explain" the situation or mitigate it and then leave needed to be done. But what you actually said sounds passive aggressive to me. You really were talking to your husband, not your son. You were (indirectly) telling him to quiet down and "we" this and "we" that towards your son... so you were using your son to talk to your husband.

Really not trying to nit-pick. It must have been awful. But direct would have been the better way to approach it.
"Billy doesn't need to hear this from us. I'm going ____ until we can discuss this more calmly." and then leave the room or whatever...
But you were essentially talking TO your husband like a child and trying to appear as if you were talking to your son.... it isn't the same thing and really is an infuriating thing to do to someone already angry.
What you did later ("...at this point I had had enough and calmly said I am done with you and being abused by you......there is no need for name calling....we should just let our attorneys talk..") is how you should have talked to him initially. Not talking down to him "via" babytalk "to" your son.

If you think you have a chance at making this work, continue with the counseling, but be aware of how you are contributing to the escalations. It isn't one sided. It rarely is.

If you think there is no chance, then you might want to continue counseling on your own anyway...to help with dealing with the unravelling.

Best wishes.

He sounds like my father back in the day. My mom did not ask for a divorce until I was 8. I knew they did not love each other and I hated feeling so stressed all of the time.. My only regret was that she did not do it earlier..

You are doing what is best for your child..

Be strong, do not back down. You and your son deserve better than this. His loss, not yours..

I am sending you strength..

The hardest bit is the first step. Please, call your attorney. My DH left his ex when his eldest child said, "It's not that bad." He was horrified to realize that his child thought the yelling and fighting and drama was normal. He couldn't guarantee 2 happy homes, but he could try very hard to make 1 happy home for his kids. In my own life, my mom left an abusive situation and though things were not always easy, it was better than the way it was. I have thanked her many times for having the courage to leave.

You write....".....a part of me feels sorry for him since he has never known love or family in his life. His mom is very unaffectionate, distant and self centered as well but I strongly believe that he can control what come out of his mouth but he doesn't since there are no consequneces."

You can't and shouldn't fix him. While it was good that counseling helped, it needs to stick. (Unclear to me -- are you and he still in counseling? If so, did you and he discuss this specific incident with your counselor??)

If you are no longer in counseling, well, you could give it another try, but it sounds as if he is unwilling or unable to stop, think, and consider what he learned when you were both getting help. And as you say, he reverts to his old ways.

I agree with the person who posted that your son is going to learn that this is the normal way for adults to behave. Your husband is modeling horrible behaviors for your child, and your child is going to grow up thinking (no matter what you do to prevent it) that this is how a man treats a woman. Your husband needs to see that you will, indeed, follow through on your ultimatum.

Two things to keep in mind and be prepared for:

One, if he thinks you are never going to follow through on seeking a divorce -- once you do, he might turn on the "I'm so sorry, I love you, I'll change forever" routine. You know him and we don't, so you probably already know if that routine is something he would try. If it is -- be ready and be strong so you can withstand any tears or pleas of change he makes. You know from experience that his actions don't match his words, so don't let any words sway you if you decide to leave, and that includes words of his undying love and devotion. The words mean nothing coming out of the same mouth that called you things so bad you can't type them here.

Two, the way he involved your young son by telling him mommy was (unspeakable words) is scary. I wonder if your husband is the type who will fight you like hell for your child, just to punish you. Be prepared for that. Be sure you have talked with an attorney in great detail before you tell your husband. Also, he will probably get at least partial custody/visitation and you need to be prepared for the idea of dad badmouthing you to your child; you need emotional support to deal with that, and parenting support (like a good counselor) to help you fiind ways to counteract if if does happen.

I would insist that mandatory parenting classes be part of the divorce agreement if something like that is possible. But whether it will stick -- since the earlier counseling didn't stick either -- well, that seems doubtful.

Nothing excuses your husband's behavior at all. However, you saying what you said to your son in front of your husband was almost taunting and passive aggressive. Yes, that's the message your child needs and should hear - AFTER you remove him from that situation. "We will need to finish this conversation later in private," is what you say to your husband. "I love you, but we need to put him first, so I'm going to take him outside to play for a while." When you are quiet with your son, you apologize on behalf of BOTH you and your husband and then let him know that yelling is never the right way to solve problems. NOT Daddy shouldn't have yelled -- just generalized "yelling." Otherwise, it pits you and your husband against each other through the child.

All that being said, please consider leaving while you go through therapy.

Ditto Diane B.....only to add that you say he's never known love or family? I'd like to submit that you've been married for awhile now. Have you not loved him? Does your family, with your child, not constitute a family? He's had it, and hasn't nourished it. Just a thought....

My husband is by NO means perfect, but I will say that when our 6 year old was 2, he spoke to me in an unacceptable way in front of our little guy. When he was asleep later, I said "The way you spoke to me: I can understand you being angry with me, but I want you to know that doing that in front of our little boy (a) hurts him, our little 2 year old, because he loves me, (b) teaches him an example of how to treat his mom or even how to think about his mom when he's mad at me, and (c) teaches him how to think and speak to other women when he's older. It's not ok, and as mad as you may be at me, as little as you may think of me sometimes, you can't do that to our son. When nap was over, he did apologize to me, in front of Joseph. Then he apologized to Joseph, in front of me, for talking to his mom like that. It was his idea to apologize in front of our son, since he'd cursed me in front of our son. He wanted to teach him that even dads can make mistakes, but a man needs to be big enough to admit when he's wrong and make amends when possible. Not to say we've never argued or raised our voices where the boys could hear, or that the world has been all sunshine and roses since. But the good far outweighs the harder times, we don't cut each other down or speak ill of each other (ESPECIALLY in front of children who love us both), and I think your husband should recognize his probllem and make amends. I don't know your other posts or issues, but I feel that if someone can't apologize to his child for disrespecting mom, if he actually feels your those things he said, then further steps must be taken. Counseling first, would be my suggestion. If that doesn't fly, then it's just not a healthy marriage and it's not like you have given up on a whim.

honestly i'm torn if he;s been good and really trying for the last 6 months and that was the only relapse i'd say immediate counseling and then let the counselor meet with you seperate to help decide. if he';s had several relapses which it sounds like from you saying its been a very bad 6 years... i would be calling the attorney ASAP.

By the way I'm going to disagree with what everyone said on how you spoke to your son. Maybe because i grew up with an abusive alcoholic but my mom did that with us several times it is condescending and pushes buttons. Heck if someone spoke about M. in a sweet voice admist chaos andanger to my kid poitning out what i did wrong i'd be even more livid...the diference being i can control it and walk away and wait until my kid goes to bed, your husband has anger issues and you are in NO way responsible for his outbust and reactions but i do think that conversation with your son sounded condescending and knowingly pushed his buttons...but he alone is responsbile for his own actions and reactions

Your hubby sounds like a jerk, but in all honesty, you egged it on. You should have just walked away. Your patronizing speech to your son could have gotten you seriously physically hurt.

It's time to call it quits and find the door.

You gave it a good run for six long hard years. What have you learned? How not to be treated. Look around you and you will see yourself the same at 65 and with nothing to show for it but heartache.

Time to get everything in order and leave. Have your friend hold your personal papers outside the house. If you have a bank account in your name great if not get one and put the money in it with only your name on it.

You will thank yourself several years down the line for the brave steps you are about to make. Also your son will be much happier. He does not know daddy that well and another person can fill that void.

Be strong and just do it. I know easier said that done. But the first step is the hardest and you have taken half of it in realizing that nothing good is going to come from staying. You love him but it is not enough. He has to want to make changes which he does not want to do at this time.

Many hugs to you.

the other S.

PS Keep us posted.

Uh, he told your young child his mom was an effing b!tch. What more do you need in order to leave? Are you waiting until your child is old enough to remember this and be screwed up?

The best way to ensure that your son does not grow up this way is to take him out of that situation. Good for you for standing up for yourself and your son, for not allowing your son to think it's okay for someone to be abusive, and for already contacting an attorney.

Stop feeling sorry for your husband - lots of people have problematic upbringings, and while it may be reason for them to seek professional help, it's not an excuse for bad behavior. You've been in counseling but it hasn't helped your husband - if he's not willing to work at it, it's not going to work.

Anyone who thinks it's appropriate to yell and swear at a 2 year old really has bigger problems than you can solve. Anyone who blames another person for "starting something" that led to abusive behavior is in complete denial about personal responsibility and anger management.

I think you should immediately sit down with your attorney to figure out how to protect any financial assets and how to make a plan for separation. Your husband will have visitation rights and while it's unlikely your child will be damaged forever for a couple of rants, you want to be sure that your husband does not use your child as a way to take out his anger on your (such as not returning him after visitation). SO get your ducks in a row, but if there is any hint or fear of violence, get out immediately and then work on the legal stuff. Stash some money and important papers, clothes for both you and your son plus diapers and other needs (even a few toys) in a safe place such as with a friend, and be vigilant.

You've tried counseling. It hasn't worked. Get out. You don't deserve to be treated like your husband treats you. More importantly, you need to remove your son from the toxic environment. It's time to get serious and talk with an attorney. However, I urge you to have a plan in place to protect you and your son both physically and financially. Again, talk with an attorney as soon as possible. Be safe. Continue counseling for yourself to help get you through.

You are correct about your son. If you continue to raise him in the environment he's in now, he may well grow up to be just like his father. I got out of a relationship much like yours after 20 years because I had had enough and did not want my daughters to think it was ok to be treated like their father treated me. Best decision I ever made and I have never second guessed it.

Leaving/divorcing is the right thing to do.
Get the ball rolling with your lawyer.

Sounds like you have taken all the steps you can to try to work it out. I would deffinatly all an attorney!!! YOu didn't bring our son into it you husband did when he started that with him in your arms. My Ex boyfriend did that with my oldest (That was not his) he would start a fight when I was holding him cause he thought it would make me not argue back. But usually my friend would come get him. Not a good situation and I am so glad I did not marry that. Good luck!!!

Well I can't tell you to get a divorce but I think you two definitely need time apart. My husband was mentally abusive to me for several years and I separated from him several years ago. He realized how horrible it was and we did get back together. He is much better today but still makes snide comments from time to time. Here is the worst part though, my boys were young when he was doing it and they are very disrespectful to me. He does not defend me in the way I feel he should and this again is causing a lot of turmoil at our house. I have considered leaving again because I have never been truly happy or atleast not for a long period of time. I cannot say I regret getting back with him because we have a precious 4 year old. However, if things continue and my oldest two boys do not move out soon, I just do not know how long I can deal with it. Please do not live your life in misery and have your son grow up thinking that is normal because it is NOT. He should grow up learning that men respect women. Good luck and God bless!

I'm curious, has it been his birthday recently?