Naughty Boys Refuse to Go to Bed

Have you tried taking away everything they enjoy? TV, video games, toys, whatever it is they do? Try taking those things away for a few days until they comply. When they get bored enough, they will keep their butts in bed.

There is no reason for your 3 and 4 year olds to be up and in destructo mode at that time of night to the point where you call your pastor for help at 11:15.
I'm not saying that to be judgemental.
That is what your kids need to get clued in on.

There is no excuse for it.
Mommy takes no crud when it comes to bedtime.

Please don't take this the wrong way, I've had a rough day and I raised two kids as a single mom.
Nothing I say is meant as offensive.

In my opinion, you're doing to much to drag bedtime out as it is.
Story of their choice, singing a bunch of songs, rocking them, saying scriptures....
Choose one.
Story of their choice OR a song OR saying scriptures.
There is nothing wrong with rocking them, but it's obviously not making them sleep.
I would ditch that idea for the time being.
Not as a punishment, but it's not working.

Your kids are tag teaming you. They are feeding off of each other.
It can be hard for kids to wind down at the end of the day, but there is no reason for 11 o'clock stuff and tearing their room up.
Bed time is bed time. Keep it short and simple.
"You're going to bed. That's the end of it. Tear your room up tonight, there will be no story, no scriptures, no singing tomorrow. You will spend that time cleaning up the mess you made tonight and every minute you stay up late, you will go to bed even earlier the next night, even if it means immediately after dinner. No bath, no nothin'.
It can be dinner and bed. Your choice."
If you say it....you have to mean it.
If you want your kids to behave, you can't muffy fluff around about it.
I have two of the most well behaved kids BECAUSE I'm a single mom and I didn't have time for foolishness.
I didn't let my kids run over me for one second.
I know all about working your head off and being tired. I know all about not wanting to be upset with your kids and making your time with them quality time, but if they know Mommy means business, it makes things so much easier.
Separating them is only a temporary or intermittant solution.
They don't control bed time. YOU do.

You are NOT a horrible mother for making your children go to bed at a decent time. They need that from you. They need that routine.
I think you just need to let them know that goofing at bedtime is done from here on out and stick to it!
You will all be happier in the long run.
And better rested.

Just my opinion and again, no offense.

Try the SuperNanny technique. I don't recall all of the details but I'm sure if you google it you'll find the directions. It's tough (like CIO tough) but it seems effective. Try to enlist someone to help support you when you do this technique so that you don't give in. Maybe one of your teenagers or a friend or relative can be there with you for moral support. My recollection of this is that it might take 3-4 nights of hard work, but they do eventually get it. It's like breaking any other bad habit (I can painfully recall the first binkie-free nights of hell with one of my kids like it was yesterday).

Good luck to you! You can do this!

Another mom asked this question earlier.. You may want to check out her advice..
http://www.mamapedia.com/questions/5340415447579951105

I agree to put safety locks on all of the drawers and the handles of the closets.

These boys need to have lots of very active play during the day.. But it needs to start calming down around your home beginning at 5:00pm.
Quirt dinner, quiet bath.. Take them into a darkened room. Calmly put them in their PJ's.

I suggest no singing and no conversations at bedtime.

Prayers and quiet book, read in the dimmest light with no animated voices or questions about the book. Also the rocking situation may need to stop. You are not allowing them to fall asleep on their own,

Make sure there is not a lot of activity that these boys are aware around the house. No cell phones, no TV sounds, no laughing loud talking etc. It makes the little boys think they are missing out.

Make sure their older brothers do not horseplay with them after dinner or bath. It takes a child 2x as long to calm down as it did to rile them up.

Here is what I suggested to the other mom.
During the day, talk about him sleeping in his own bed after story time at night. Talk about his sleep time routine. Exactly how it will be each night,

Let him know he will need to go to sleep to be a "big and tall boy". That when he sleeps his body grows. If he stays awake, he will not let his body grow stronger and taller.

He can have a lovey and a flashlight or talk about a night light.. or also consider playing a quiet music CD..

Let him know you and dad need to go to sleep in your beds when he is asleep, so he needs to close his eyes and stay in bed.

Also make sure your son does not see a lot of activities going on outside of his door. Bright lights, cell phones, TV flickering lights and sounds need to take place away from his room. Make it as dark and quiet as possible.

When you read books to your son at night, this is not a time to ask questions about the book, or make it too animated. It needs to be in a quiet voice, in as dark of a room as possible.. We used to speak slower and slower towards the last few pages.. Lulls them to sleep.

First I want you to know this is a solvable problem. I don't think it should take more than a week but it may be a long week for you. IMO your kids should not have the opportunity get up, run around, pull the clothes out of the closet and dresser etc. So... I would tell them things are going to change at your house at bedtime. Once in bed they are going to stay there period. Make sure they know your expectations. Once you turn their light out and say good night close their bed room door but sit right outside their door. The second you hear them get up or start talking immediately go in the room and say something like "that is enough now be quite and go to sleep". Don't let them get away with anything you don't want them to do. One thing I noticed is that parent are able to teach even a very young child not to touch a hot stove. Why? Because the parent reacts immediately when a child goes to touch it and prevents them from doing so.
You can do this. By age 2 1/2 I would say I could get my kids to stop an undesirable behavior by just giving them the look:0)

Start the bedtime routine earlier. play time dinner by like 5 if possible. a little bit of playtime, bath, 1 story and bedtime no scriptures no songs etc. 1 drink of water and then bed. lights off. child proof the room. that means locks on dresser drawers or remove the dresser all together. if you have the room put nothing in the bedroom except the beds. and if they are totally destroying that then just a mattress on the floor. get them up early. maybe change the diet. what are they eating I would suggest no caffeine at all. put a gate across the doorway. and ok here is the totally unpolitically correct thing. if they get up over and over crack them on the behind. one good swat should do it. I am not a person who thinks a spanking cures all things. it doesn't. but it sounds like your boys know exactly what they are doing. i would put them to bed and shut the light off and gate the room so they can't get out. let them scream. you do deserve some down time. maybe don't turn the tv on for half an hour after they go to bed. if they think your doing nothing they won't want to get in there.

That's what my house was like tonight! Thankfully by CSI they were sorted out and asleep, but they kept interrupting Harry's Law, which was highly irritating. My 3 boys share a room, which they all love. I believe you hit upon the solution tonight...if they cannot lay quietly in bed until they fall asleep, then they need to be separated. My older 2 are usually not a problem (we have occasional issues, like tonight), but my 2 year old does not go to sleep well at night (takes his nap just great, but having his brothers in the room is just too exciting for him at bedtime). I cannot have him keeping his brothers awake and interfere with the sleep they need for school. So #3 gets three warnings, after which he loses the privilege to be in the room with his brothers and has to be by himself in another room. After a couple of minutes of crying, he is given the opportunity to apologize and try again. He gets three more warnings (only because he's so young, but by age 3 he'll lose the second set of warnings) after which he is removed from the shared room until he falls asleep. Since this is the regular consequence, he knows no matter what he does he's not going back in with brothers, so he usually settles down after just a few minutes of crying. However, sometimes, like tonight, he'll come out of the room, in which case he loses other privileges, such as his pillow pet. Sometimes it still gets ugly, but it usually doesn't last for more than 45 minutes to an hour. 9:00 is much better than 11, and you can still catch CSI! Hope you get it figured out soon :) I'm on my own for 3-4 nights a week because of hubby's work so at least I get a break the other nights. Maybe the teens can help you out, at least earlier in the night?

Do you have some help at night from your spouse or partner? Or, are you doing this routine by yourself? I feel for you. I totally understand what you mean about getting some time for you at the end of the day.

Are the boys napping during the day? If so, that may be a reason why they are having a tough time going down. Are the boys sleeping in the same room? Can you try simplifying your routine a bit more. Brush teeth, read one book, say a prayer and go to bed? I've been told that the bedtime routine should be no more than 20 minutes long. How long do you spend?

My other thought was, maybe you can do the routine at the same time with both boys and then put the youngest to sleep first. Wait, and then put the older boy down after your youngest is asleep.

Good luck mama!

Make an appointment to talk with your pediatrician without the boys present.. Explain situation. I am sorry.. I do bed time alone also.. My doctor suggested a natural supplement.. Melatonin.. The dissolve tabs.. But check with your doctor.. All H would break loose at my hose my 5 yr.. Would keep getting o out of bed and it would start at 8 and go till mid night.. Even with kindergarten starting early mornings.. So this melatatonin has helped a lot better each week.. Asleep by 8:35 last night.. I watched the tv for hours lol..I know what you mean.
Hugs,
L.

Oh my, sounds totally stressful to say the least! Wow, what happens when they do those things? Are they punished? It sounds to me that they have no clue as to what their boundaries are. Also, children that young need much more sleep than what they seem to be getting.

Yes, separate them! Keep it that way. If the 3 yr old seems to behave better in his own room, goes to bed when told, does not throw a fit-reward him. It won't be long before the 4 yr old decides that he, too, wants a reward. Praise him for when he behaves at night time.

Do they behave during the day? Are they respectful? Do they listen during the day? or is this just at night before bed?

They need to learn who is in charge. They run the ship and they know it. Have you ever watched Supernanny? She has wonderful advice and it works. She has turned the most disrespectful children into beautifully behaved children.

Good luck to you. You definately deserve to watch your television shows after the kiddos go to bed. That's what I like to do, too!

Oh G., may the Force be with you... These are desperate times which may require some desperate measures. I have three little boys who can be complete turds sometimes, and my husband is AWOL too. I'm sure others will totally disagree with my methods, but I don't care. First, start your routine earlier and aim to have them in bed by 7.30 pm. I never actually get them there at that time, but if it's before 7.45 pm, I'm doing OK. Before their bedtime sprinkle some lavender oil on their pillows. It's calming and conducive to sleep. During the routine start dropping hints about how the bedtime police will be patrolling tonight, and that children who are not in bed asleep may be arrested. Another version is to tell them that Santa's Elves have started to monitor children to report back to Santa in the lead up to Christmas. Unfortunately they are mostly invisible and only grown ups can see them. These seem to work for me pretty well.

If all else fails, try phenergen.

When we travel and our kids are together, bedtime can take forever. I would try one boy at a time. Youngest first, quiet time with you while the oldest watches a children's show on TV. Then, oldest gets bedtime routine in the family room and by then, your first should be asleep and you transition to that room.

If you're able to move up the bedtime, that may also help. If you can catch kids before they're overtired, they can go to sleep faster. Our five-year-old daughter is naturally an early riser, so we start her bedtime routine at 6:30 pm and finish by 7:00.

If things continue to be challenging, consider talking to their pediatrician about melatonin. Our oldest has ADHD and can't calm his body enough to fall asleep. He's been taking a small dosage of melatonin every night since he was four and it works great. Just takes an hour before he naturally feels sleepy. But you want to do this under a doctor's guidance, as we have.

Good luck!

You have good advice given here. My only question is about their diet. What are they eating for dinner? Is a lot of carbs, sugar or any caffeine? I truly believe diet can help control some behavior issues. Look at the ingredients in what they are eating and make the appropriate adjustments as an added measure.

Hi, G.:
I would suggest a family circle with your children, the pastor and
the father of your children.

You as the facilitator ask these questions to your 2 offending children:

1. What happened?
2. What were you thinking of at the time?
3. What have you thought about since?
4. Who has been affected by what you have done? In what way?
5. What do you think you need to do to make things right?

Have your paper and pencil handy to write down the agreement.

Now you answer these questions:

1. What did you think when you realized what had happened?
2. What impact has this incident had on you and others?
3. What has been the hardest thing for you?
4. What do you think needs to happen to make things right?

Write down this agreement.

Now:
Read each question to your 2 teenagers one at a time.
Write down there agreements.

Next:
Read each question to their father and let him answer and
then write down his agreement.

Next:
Read each question to your pastor and let him answer and
then write down his agreement.

Then:

Read each agreement one by one and get a consensus to include in your
final agreement.

Follow up with:

Write down who will oversee what agreements are carried out.

Hope this helps.
All the Best.
D.

We just moved my 4 yo from his crib to a bed and we had a couple nights of him getting up and playing with stuff in his room. I let it go on 2 nights because this was all new (I took the pacifier at the same time). On the 3rd morning, I came in and his toys were all in bed with him. I told him that bedtime was for sleeping, not playing, and we talked about why sleep is important (that's when you grow, you can get sick,etc.) I then said, "It is very important that you get good sleep. If it is too hard to sleep in here with your toys and books, I will take them out of your room." He understood that if he didn't go to bed and stay in his bed, there wouldn't be toys to play with in his room. We've had much better (though not perfect) bedtimes since.

I think you have a serious discipline problem going on here. No judgments-- I have a spouse and 1 kid and still don't get it right nearly enough. But you are going to have to establish who is in control here. I agree that separating the boys probably makes sense. But if they can't sleep in their rooms with toys, take the toys out of the room. If you have to have nothing but a mattress on the floor, then do that. Everything else is a privilege, not a right. You have a good routine going-- keep it up. But taking away a book for the next night is just too abstract and remote a consequence for kids this age.

They are looking for attention from you (and each other) and they are getting it. If you separate them, take the toys out of their rooms, and (if need be) lock them in, they will realize that there is nothing fun about their behaviors. When things are calm, explain to them why this is important, and why you are making changes. But they are running roughshod over you, and it is time to stop-- for them, and you.

If you haven't seen SuperNanny dealing with behavior like this, then check her out. She's very good, but consistency is key!

OK, since others have already posted "tough love" suggestions, I'll share one of mine. My twins have gone through this phase, and the thing that has worked best is the threat of splitting them up. It only took a few times of removing one from the room (making him lie down in the hallway or another room) before they realized that I was serious in that threat. Of course, you need to have this as a serious option or else they'll call your bluff. Also, it only works if they both feel strongly about wanting to be in the same room...

Good luck :)

Been there done that!! I HATE that feeling! You're totally not alone! Separating my kids has been the best thing so far. My husband works nights...so I'm doing the bedtime routine alone too. We have a little more space now...but right after my husband had open heart surgery we lived in an extremely small apartment to minimize expenses...bedtime was HARD! At first I thought there was no way I would let one sleep in my room...it would just make it a bad habit...etc. Finally, for my sanity and everybody elses health and well being, I just had one sleep on our bed and moved him/her after they fell asleep. Separating them totally diffused that...psycho, crazy, bedtime energy :). Good luck!

This is gonna sound harsh, but it only happened like once, if that, with my kids when they were first old enough to get out of their own beds, around two, to train them to prevent tons of bedtime anguish. I'm currently starting with my two year old.

You put them to bed after a nice routine, and tell them to stay in bed. They get ONE time to get out. You IMMEDIATELY, put them back in with a FIRM warning that if they get out again, there will be a consequence. If they get out again, you immediately swat their butt and put them back in bed. Repeat as necessary. Last night I had to return my 2yo daughter (newly in big girl mattress) back to bed once with a firm warning, and she stayed. This is due to consistency at other times, she has no reason to doubt my warning, so she didn't get out. She was asleep minutes later. She's been getting up "once" ever since she got her new mattress. She knows any more than that would be a bad plan, and I haven't even had to enforce. Soon she'll be in the habit of just staying the first time.

There is no reason they should get away with antics outside of bed for even five minutes before you intervene with very firm consequences and don't back down. Whatever works best for them in achieving instant compliance. At 3 and 4 they are in this habit, and will push you, so be prepared to outlast them and never back down. Put them right back in bed immediately and give them an effective reason to not get back out! Good luck!

I'm sorry and I'm about to crawl upstairs myself (my alarm goes off at 6:30 so I can nurse the baby and get him back to sleep for my husband for the morning since he's home and works evenings). My older two boys share a room (they're 4 1/2 and 3 years old). They have had more than one night when they emptied their dressers and closet and stripped the beds (if we're lucky they don't put other things in the clean clothes, gross things I don't ever want to find). They even broke a piggy bank on my husband (his time, not his body) and got blood all over their room. Our bedtime is later because of our work schedules, but we put our oldest up first since he'll sleep through anything. Once he's out (usually within 15 to 45 minutes) we take the younger one up. Once in a while he'll try to wake his brother up, but most nights he just plays in their room until he falls asleep in bed. I don't understand the appeal of taking all their clothes out of the dresser or spitting water on each other, but they're also boys. I will not pretend to understand them, just try to survive them. :)