Need Help with a Defiant 2 1/2 Year Old Boy

S.,
I like Love & Logic, but even better I like Jane Nelsen's Positive Discipline. Especially the mistaken goals chart.

You should be able to find those books in the library.
(It works with husbands too -- bless their little hearts!)

A.

I don't want to "tell you what to do". But i will refer you to Dr. James Dobson. He is on KLTY family friendly radio show every morning around 7:15-7:30. He also has MANY great publishings on the matter. In fact he seems particularly familiar with raising boys.
*As a side note* I have also been through Love&Logic. I agree with everything they say, almost. :)
I made sure to do my research as well. Except i went to the best source possible. The bible is very clear and way more in depth than just the way over used phrase, "spare the rod, spoil the child". I wouldn't suggest that phrase to anyone i know either. But if you actually read the whole topic it is in every sense of the words, in LOVE & total LOGIC. The key...pause. Explain that there will be a punishment shortly and have him wait in time out or whatever you're comfortable with. Wait until you can feel the anger leave you and you are left with only the lesson that your son NEEDS for his mom to teach him, in LOVE. Because, guess what...i know it's a kick in the teeth a lot of the time but it is why we're here. BUT, you know what? When you have those moments where you have incredible touching exchanges between just the two of you, all the junk goes away. ...then he'll test you again. One thing i will warn you about that is very crucial----if you lose this "battle" of who's the boss NOW, you'll NEVER see it again. A second thing that i will tell you is crucial, never "threaten" a punishment you won't carry out and never back down if the punishable action is carried out by your son. THEY RECORD EVERY TIME YOU DO THAT! haha
I will leave you with this. God has given you an awesome blessing. He wouldn't have trusted you with it if you couldn't get through it.
The Zoloft? I take it. I am glad it's available. I think you would feel more ease with it after you have completely stopped breast feeding. Whatever you decide will be the right decision.
Lastly, God made you exactly how you were meant to be and He loves you very much no matter what.
My name is M. Quitevis. If i can help, please let me know. ____@____.com

You're not alone. I have a 6 year old and a 3 year old. My firstborn is extremely "intense"- this is the nice way to put it. My secondborn is a "charming challenge" and that is putting it mildly.

When it comes to potty training here's what I've learned:

Books have great ideas on paper but your actual experience is not something you'll find written down anywhere! The more you push to potty train the harder it will be on both of you. The biggest thing about potty training is consistency and showing very little negativity. Most of us do not respond well to negativity even as adults and a small child just won't react the way we expect them to becasue they're still learning and each thing is a completely new experience. So try this- take your son to go potty at regular times and do as you have been-faucet on-books availible. Set yourself a time limit to keep your frustration from being too high. 15 min or whatever. Be prepared before you go in-take pull ups and wipes with you or keep them on hand.

It is hard to go on demand before you learn the control so there will probably be a few more accidents. If the pull up is right on hand then when he goes it will save your floors and you some hardwork. Make sure it's the type that allows the child to feel when it's wet as keeping him dry is no longer a point. YOu want it to feel yucky to him now. BUT when he does go like this and it is an accident-then simply say-"Uh oh-next time we'll try to go in the potty. I know you'll do better then!" Then just change him quickly and move on. Do not dwell upon his poor timming, the mess or make him clean it up or send him to his room. This simply attaches a lot of negativity to going potty in his little mind. Keep things simple!

Personally I know EXACTLY how frustrated you will be at times. I know you can swallow the words that rise in your throat and chew your tongue and clench your jaw and breathe very hard while steam escapes your ears. When you feel this way remember that you once had accidents on the floor too and yet your own mother let you live... ;)

I've done potty training TWICE now. I followed all the books, did all the cute helpful hints, tried bribery with stickers and candy for my oldest. What worked is what I've written. When my second came along I took the same approach. I was consistent in taking her at specific times and was positive. She trained quickly without a lot of issue. I think I threw more tantrums than she did-I'm sorry to say. Girls get it a little more quickly than boys do. I think it's because of how our body parts are made-still give your son time to get this. Try not to expect a 3 day miracle. It's delightful to read but not realistic for most of us! Of course-if you wait until your son is 4 to introduce alls this then YES, he could potty train in just 3 days-maybe 24 hours THEN but who wants to wait that long?

DO not be fooled by much older mothers who claim they had their children potty trained at 15 months-or before 2. These mothers are sharing either myths or legends. You can respond with a smile and allow such things to just roll off your shoulders like you would the idea of kissing a frog to find a prince.

Don't know your approach with your son-but sometimes having them stradle the potty facing the back (if you're doing the big potty) works a little better for control and for reaching books on back of potty. When older you can place floating targets in the potty to help him aim-cheerios and marshmellows-any light foods. Boys can sit down to pee and just have to learn to hold themselves down to do so and I can imagine it takes practice and time to learn how to relax enough to go and also how to master the technique.

I'm still learning how to manage PMS and here I am a 30 year old woman...

Blessings to you and hang in there!!

CHOICES, CHOICES, CHOICES! I know some would argue that a 2 1/2 year old doesn't need choices, but I would argue they've never had a strong-willed child. My daughter was the same way, so I feel your pain. I learned to start giving her choices up front with everything (not after you've told them to do something because then you have to stick to your guns). And while you're getting adjusted don't feel bad about giving incentives (incentives are when you offer a reward up front as opposed to a bribe which is where you say stop acting that way and you'll get xyz).

Instead of saying "we're having pb&j for lunch" I'd say you can either have pb&j or you can have salad with me, or you can go hungry. Granted, I didn't love the "hungry" option but after once or twice (and nothing to eat until the next meal) she started making the better choice - and she always got to choose, to "be in control". The incentive options would be "you can either have a pb&j and a cookie for dessert or you can wait until dinner to eat again" - see, still choices with a clear push to "my" choice. Also, choices can be "you can clean up that mess you made or lose your favorite toy for the rest of the day - or tv, or whatever his "currency" is". "You can go on the potty like a big boy, or you can choose to be a baby in diapers today but babies don't get to (fill in the blank)". Find what works for him but I think the main thing is don't fight him, give him choices and calmly follow thru with the consequences of those choices. And as YOU practice (because it takes a little getting used to) you'll find it easier to find livable choices in everything - it will become 2nd nature.

Mine is now 6 and life is much easier. Everything isn't a battle all the time because I don't have to try to MAKE her do things, she knows she has to choose one of the options I've given her and generally everyone comes out happy.

Email me if you have any specific questions or anything, it is a hard road, but you can do it. Good luck whatever you choose!

YOur 2 1/2 year-old boy sounds just like a 2 1/2 year-old boy, if you ask me. And if you're using Love and Logic, then you're doing lots of things right. I think, as moms, we tend to think, "If I can just parent the right way, my kid will skip all the bad behavior and avoid all the horrible developmental stages." But that isn't true. Raising kids takes time ... we can't just adopt a philosophy and expect everything to go perfectly because of it. Our job is to be consistent and persistent. Over time, our kids get through all the "yuck" (that goes right along with all the "sweet") and they grow up to be decent, loving people who do not pee on rugs. :)

Hi S.,
Let me just tell you my oldest son had no interest in ANY potty training until after his 3rd birthday. With your son...Do you think this has become a battle of the wills? Is this going on in regard to everything? Are you using Love & Logic without sarcasm and anger? If yes to all three of those I would consider a call to the pediatrician for advice. Otherwise I would just try to pick my battles and not put too much pressure in regard to the potty training.

Maybe he is not ready to potty train at 2 and 1/2. I would put him back in the diapers and let him think about it for a month or so and then try. This will be a cooling off period for both of you. My son broke himself of the messy diaper by 8 months old because he didn't like the feel of poopoo in the pants. He was finally trained by 3 and 1/2 months of wetting in the pants just before baby sister arrived. He had one accident after training while I was in hospital with the new baby. Not all kids are like that. Yes there were a few times we (both he and I) cleaned up the bathroom around the toiler because we didn't want to aim in the bowl. Doing this a couple of times changed his mind and he aimed in the bowl after that. Good luck to you and keep your patience. Remember "who is the parent and who is the child?" Think of that statement when things are not going right stand your ground and you will make the right choice as the parent regardless of what other people thing. The other S.

I like nogreaterjoy.org "To train up a child".

In this one instance, though, he and I (with me holding his hands) would have cleaned that rug. Come hell or high water. KWIM?

S.

I potty trained my son in one afternoon at 3 1/2 years old. My daughter now is the same age and also ready. They somehow suddenly understand consequences at this stage. 2 1/2 is really young to expect so much from him... even time out they don't 'get' at that age. I really think you need to step back and remember he's 2 1/2. You want to know how I got throught the bad times is I would tickle him - I didn't force, expect, punish or discipline him - I tickled him to distract me and him from the whole 'moment'.. & I have a delightful, 5 year old that people continually comment on how centered and attentive he is.

Oh, and for sure he is picking up on your loathing to stay home with him on those 2 days - Maybe you need to get out with him on those two days..

Fall in love with your son again - you are the center of his universe at the moment... it won't last for long.

I don't know what will work, but I wish you love and patience and I sympathize with you. I "spanked" my daughter one time at about that age, one open handed swat on the bare behind and I never had another issue with her (she's in her last year of college now). It surprised her very much, surprised me too, I didn't think I was a spanker. Not recommending, just sharing. Good luck and God bless. This too shall pass. (Much too quickly.)

My now five yr old was also very sweet, but very strong willed and defiant, with some outright terrible tantrums for a while. My lifesaver was using the combination of techniques from "The Explosive Child" and "Love n Logic". The "Explosive Child (book)" was recommended by my pediatrician, after she witnesses one of his melt downs, and I learned about Love N Logic via his preschool program. They really worked well together. Bascially, the Explosive Child explains how some strong willed children tend to problem solve, and the best way to react that keeps them from going into a stubborn 'vapor lock' where they are not appropriately responsive. When you keep them in a teachable frame of mind, then they respond better to discipline methods such as Love n Logic.

Good luck!!