Here goes...
We've been married for 5 years, together for 8. We have one beautiful daughter (4 1/2). I had her when I was 40 so it was a one and done scenario for us. Before our daughter arrived we had our ups and downs but nothing major. One of my key issues is lying (trust). I found out my husband was lying to me about his alcohol consumption, his dad was an abusive alcoholic and they are not close because of this. He isn't very close with any of his immediate family members whereas I am very close wtih all my family. We discussed this issue more than once with a therapist, but he kept falling off the wagon. He never was abusive but the fact that he felt it was okay to lie to me about it really hurt and pissed me off. Then 2 years ago our daughter was diagnosed with leukemia and we essentially circled the wagons and focused all our energy on her recovery. I lived in the hospital with her during the early phase of her treatment and my husband would stop by the hospital every night after work. I continued to work part time remotely from the hospital but was laid off due to the economy a few months into her treatment. I found more work as a consultant that allowed me to work from hospital or home at whatever hours. He was then fired from his job a couple months after that and essentially has not worked since. They were kind enough to label him as laid off rather than fired so he could collect unemployment. We then had to pay our COBRA coverage so we wouldn't lose insurance coverage for our daughter's 2 years of chemotherapy treatments. He has gotten a few jobs here and there but hasn't been able to keep them for more than a month at a time. He is one of those guys that feels he knows how to do everyone's job better than they do and tells them how to do their job after just a week or so. Over the course of the last two years I feel like I have essentially been a single parent, I have worked to support us and take care of my daughter and take her for all her trips to the cancer clinic in the next state over. My husband would not come with us as he didn't like the way I drove and I didn't like the way he drove (too aggressive) and his driving would make our daughter feel even more sick after her treatments. I had to take time off from my paying job to do this as he wouldn't take her on his own. He doesn't have much patience with most everyone, much less a small child with toxic chemotherpay coursing through her little body.
I have asked him to move out as I am tired of his half hearted attempt at finding employment and his inability to contribute either financially or emotionally. He can be a resourceful guy when he wants to but he doesn't seem to feel any sense of responsibility to help support his family. I know he has lied to me about his job searches and that just makes me want him gone even more. My question is this how do I turn this around and find a way to love him again for the sake of our daughter? I have been struggling with this for the last year or so and feel that I am finally at my wits end. We have gone to counseling but he will no longer go so I have gone a few times on my own but it doesn't seem to be helping me make a decision one way or the other.
The biggest and only positive in my life right now is that my daughter will be done with her chemotherapy treatments in a few months and hopefully cancer will become a vague memory in her life.
Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
Thank you to everyone for your responses. I just wanted to clarify a few points that some responders had mentioned. My husband didn't drink when we first met, his reason was that he didn't want to turn into his father. After about 2 years together he started drinking, at first I was okay with it because it was just social drinking. I don't remember exactly when but at some point he started drinking the hard stuff and would consume a fifth of hard liquor over the course of two days; as far as I know he didn’t drink at work so it was always at home. That was when it became a problem as he got very belligerent when he drank. In the course of our therapy sessions he had promised repeatedly to stop drinking and I asked/told him not to promise if he wasn’t sincere; but he continued to promise and then continued his drinking anyway. I have to assume that his alcohol consumption has ceased now that he has no income, but I can't say for sure. I am the bill payer in the house so I used to see all his bills, so last year he went so far as to open his own checking account and get separate credit cards so I wouldn't be able to see his activity, and as a means to show me he was serious with his threat to leave. My asking him to move out isn't a new concept to either of us. He has threatened to leave in the past and even moved out temporarily a couple of times. We have talked about our issues and he has stated that he is willing to work hard to win back my heart, but as of yet has not changed his ways. Although we have discussed specific issues that need to be addressed he has yet to address them, such as helping out around the house, cooking dinner once in a while, etc. He does love our daughter and she loves him, but often he allows his moodiness to affect his interactions with her and it breaks my heart to see her cry because he was abrupt with her or ignored her. I do not want her to grow up thinking his behavior and treatment of me and her is acceptable or healthy.
Regarding his work problem I have been very supportive of him, even helping him create a company so he could be his own boss. But as of yet he hasn’t done anything with it to generate any income, I don’t know if he is afraid of failure or if he just doesn’t want to have to be responsible, he will not discuss it with me.
And yes my understanding of addiction is appalling because I’ve never had to deal with it in the past and I have a hard time understanding how someone can put alcohol or drugs before their family, specifically their own child. I am a big girl and I can deal with it but a four year old should not have to be subjected to that.
Again thanks to everyone for your input I truly appreciate it and I will continue to see a therapist for my own sanity…literally.
I'm so glad to hear that you guys are almost done with the chemo. You are both very brave.
I would reccomend finding a support groups for parents of children with leukemia. I bet you are not the only couple going through these exact same issues. It might help to talk to others that are going through it and see how they are handling it and get coping strategies.
First of all, I am so sorry your baby girl is going through this. How brave she must be and how brave you are!
Here's the thing, A., he has checked out of the family. You have a really tough time right now shouldering ALL the burden and it is made even more difficult with the knowledge that he is around but doesn't care to be present for you or your daughter. I can not imagine my husband not being there for our children if they were so very ill, or for me for that matter. The world could go to hell in a hand cart, but he's a dad and husband first. Every mother and child deserves the same thing. It's sad that he is special because it's exactly as it SHOULD be.
If you are going to be doing it by yourself, then you would be better of actually doing it by yourself. At least then you wouldn't be hurt, rejected and pissed off every day because you are looking at a constant reminder of who he could be and who he chooses not to be.
It may or may not give him a reality check and it may or may not cause you to be able to put your hard feelings aside so you could work on putting the marriage back together. Either way, it's better than the present situation.
If he has a drinking problem then he has his own issues to deal with that have very little to do with you and he may need to be on his own in order to adress them.
You and your daughter will be in my thoughts and prayers.
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For the second time in my membership of mamapedia, I have reported a response.
8kidsdad, your understanding of addiction is appalling. This particularly struck me as offensive, "You complaining about his work problems would send him to the bottle."
A., you are not responsible or at fault for your husband's alcoholism. I don't have advice to offer, but I send you hugs. Your past year sounds challenging beyond reason, and I hope your daughter heals and recovers quickly.
If you're no longer in love with him, then it's over between the two of you as a couple. However, your daughter is ill and she needs both parents at this time in her life.
This sounds complicated and I would not offer an opinion to you on whether to stay or go. What I will say is that stress affects people differently. Sounds as if your husband did not grow up with a good role model on how you deal with life or how to step up and be there for your family.
Best thing that I can suggest is that you individually get into some counseling to really figure out and get crystal clear on what you want to do. You can't change him or make him step up and take responsibility. All you can do is figure out what you can live with, what you will tolerate, and what kind of a person you want for a spouse. Once you figure out those things, then the next steps will become apparent.
He likely has a lot of good qualities otherwise you wouldn't have married him and change is hard. But sometimes the hardest thing to is to realize that the boat you are in is sinking and then mustering up the courage to jump out and swim for shore.
Good luck with your daughter and figuring out what to do.
I don't ever respond to someone else's response but, I have to say that one line in particular of 8kidsdad rather threw me for a loop. It was, "you need to spend less time with your daughter and more with your husband". Are you kidding me? She has a 4 1/2 year old little girl fighting cancer!
A.-My prayers are lifted for the healing of your beautiful daughter. God Speed.
You have a lot on your plate. This is a very hard situation. I think that separation would be a good place to start. I'm glad you're getting counseling. They will help you sort through all of this. I truly wish you the best and I'm praying for your daughter's full recovery. HUGS!!
As sad and unfair as this may seem, with all the time you have invested in keeping your family together already, it may be time to plan for a future as a single mom. I can almost promise you that your husband is doing the best he knows how to do, but he's just not mature/responsible enough to step it up to the needed level. You, for whatever reasons, are better equipped to deal with life's realities than he is. As a result, you are essentially nursing two children along, which is becoming too much for you.
You say nothing about how your daughter relates to her dad, and that would definitely be worth taking into consideration. You will want to help preserve whatever emotional ties they have, for the good of all of you. But that does not have to be within the context of marriage. Even a trial separation might give both of you more information, and help you navigate your way more clearly toward divorce or reconciliation.
And you can still love your husband for whatever good qualities he has. That does not mean you must forever be his "mother." He may actually have to do some real growing up without your constant support and urging. There could be a future for the two of you, but it may have to begin with you doing something decisive that leaves your husband to learn how to stand on his own two feet.
This is the point at which I'd want to talk to a lawyer about such technicalities as child support and visitation rights. If your husband is unemployed or unemployable, he could conceivably ask for alimony, so find out now what your rights and obligations may be.
Wishing you the best, A., and I hope your little girl recovers completely.
gosh i feel like crying for you. It seems he was stable before the chemo for your daughter, maybe this horrible time in your life destroyed a part of him? Also you mentioned lying about drinking, if he was only consuming it on occasion but lied b/c of your feelings towards it, even though thats wrong its diferent than lying and consming it to the point of being an alcoholic. you don't state which case this is, but it seems from your post it may be J. that you were agnst any alcohol consumption and he didn't agree to this, and instead of meeting in the middle he lied to avoid an argument? maybe idk there wasn't much info, also in regards to him driving, it seems you're both stressed and blaming eachother, afterall you do tell him he cant drive and he tells you he won't drive with you, so you're both doing the same thing? maybe?. Gosh idk who wouldn't I'm so sorry, I hope you both find peace and this cancer will be a vague memory for your daughter as you wished...shes gonna be one tough cookie, and you can conquer the world if you could conquer that with her
when people stay married, "for the sake of the kids", it rarely turns out good. you cannot stay married for a child, you either love you husband and want to stay with him or you dont. In the scenario you are describing, I would leave him, he seems totally un attached, like he could care less about his daughter or you. I am NOT a fan or advocate for divorce normally, but here it seems like the only way. You arent in love with him, he seems to have pretty much taken himself out of the equation. If one of our boys had cancer and had to go through the chemo, there is NOTHING my hubby wouldnt do. as it is, all 3 of our sons were born with cleft lip and palate, requiring lots of surgeries and treatments. he is there for everything. He works 2 jobs to support us. sorry, not trying to make you feel bad, but that is how a father and husband should be. I say make him leave and cut off contact. He either realizes his folly and does whatever he has to do to change and start to take care of his family or he doesnt. and if not, then you and your daughter are better off without him. so sorry!!
ETA: please don't listen to the few responses trying to blame you or telling you that you should change and just accept him the way he is.
I'm 10 years younger than you and thankfully my son is healthy, but I understand what you mean when you say, "how do I turn this around and find a way to love him again for the sake of our daughter?" my husband & I have gone through hell the past year, which was simultaneously the first year of my son's life and the first year of our marriage (we dated 4 years prior).
The answer is, you may not be able to, but there's another part to that question, and that is, what is he GOING TO DO to make you love him again? Do you really not love him at all? I had to do this very, very recently. Many lies and broken promises into a short marriage and I had to (and honestly am still) evaluating whether I can love my husband the way I used to. Of course, with a sick child, it's a different story, but I would guess that he feels your emotions radiating from you, and that WILL make guys more of, well, assholes. Ironically, most men become meaner as a response to feelings like ours, instead of trying to be nicer and kinder, thus making us feel more positive about them/us. IDK if your man is like that, but if he is... consider how your feelings are maybe making him act worse. NOT SAYING it's your fault. You feel how you feel. But you need to talk with him about it.
At one point recently my husband asked me if I even loved him anymore, and I could tell if I said no (which I do, of course, still love him) he would be heartbroken. Sometimes, it takes a course of conversation that serious to make them realize.... I wish I could offer more advice. About him lying about his job searches - I'd be mad, but I understand, too. As a guy, he feels like the $$ is his responsibility primarily. I don't care how much society has changed - men haven't. They (OK, some of them) have an ingrained sense of responsibility to their families, and when they can't live up to that, they lie, they cheat, they act mean... it's not right, but maybe you can reassure him in some way. NO ONE can find a job right now!!
Although it's telling that he doesn't attend counseling anymore - my husband promised to go and still has yet to uphold that promise, so I get it - it doesn't mean he doesn't care. He just cares differently. Maybe neither of you were getting much out of it? So maybe, find a new counselor.
You are dealing with two deal breakers here: Character issue, and drug addiction. Either one would be impossible for YOU to fix. Only he can do it. Your going to therapy won't change him. I would look into ways to move on from him, with love and respect, and if he wants to win you back by a total self makeover like in Fireproof (great movie), great. But you can't do it for him. And you shouldn't try to work this out with him if this is who he is and how he is going to treat you and your daughter. You have been under enormous stress. Yet you have not failed you daughter. He cannot say the same. Forgive. Move on. Blessings, and I'm so glad your daughter is almost well!
You have had a lot of horrible stress in your short time married and it can really tear a couple apart. The illness of a child is a common reason couples dont stay together. The stress is more than some can handle. You havent had enough years together to build a strong foundation of a marriage so with very few years into it, you went separate ways. Not that you wanted to, but the job situation and hospital situation made this seem like the best way to deal with things. Not being home every night, or together most weekends, can make it seem "normal" to live apart and you just havent seen each other enough. He needs help with his problems, and you need help with yours. You need to be together to help eachother to deal with your childs health and support eachother. Spending all the nights at the hospital, unless he was there too, made it too easy to feel you didnt need eachother. You probably need eachother way more than you think. I cant imagine how you would not want to stay with your child, so I wont say that was the wrong decision, it just wasnt the best one for your marriage. In the few years youve been married you have had way more stress than most couples get in 15 years time. I say stay together, get your daughter well, and work on the relationship with him. You cant fix this problem unless you spend time together. Best of health to your little girl.
wow! i'm sooo glad to hear that your daughter is doing well...okay- you didn't come out and say it - but I will glean from your post that she is in remission or at least half way there...I will keep her in my prayers...
As to your husband...the hard part is you've already tossed him out. That's the one thing that my husband and I vowed not to do - is call it quits - the minute you do that - you have, in essence, given up on your husband and your marriage.
While I agree that you have every right to be pissed and angry and everything else - he lied about alcohol consumption and you know it's alcohol is a problem for him. Love is a feeling - not so much as it is a "thing" but a feeling. You have lost respect for your husband - and I would too if my husband lied to me about important things and slacked on being a provider for our family....yeah...i would be upset too...
Only you can answer the question if you are better off with or without him. You need to decide if you really do want to make it work...but he has to be on-board too...if he doesn't care...then it will be HIS LOSS and you cannot control him nor force him into it.
If you think your life will be enhanced and better with him in it, move heaven and earth to make it work...if you don't think it will be..and you and your daughter will be better off without him...tell him flat out...get out. and this is why...you are not providing for our family. you have lied to me about important issues...i cannot trust you....our daughter cannot have this stress in her life while she is fighting for remission...all the things you feel...
remember love is a FEELING just like anger, frustration and all the other stuff...if you WANT something bad enough you can make it happen....
GOOD LUCK!
Love is a choice you choose to make every day. If you were to consider what is in your husband's heart that drives him to drink and the pain and hurt and anguish he must feel inside how can you have nothing but compassion for the man? Don't get me wrong I don't think having compassion for him should equal you not taking a stance toward change in your relationship. The real change must begin in you.
If he won't move out perhaps you need to draw a line in the sand with some terms of how things should be between the two of you. If he is not willing to comply for then drastic change should happen.
Tough love may need to be the order of the day. You may need to move out to get what you want or at least risk everything you have now in order to get something better down the road.
I don't love my husband because of any of the nice things he does for me, to me or with me even though they do help. I love him because I make that choice to do so regardless of how well or wrong he behaves. Loving him for me is easy but respecting him can be difficult at times. I get feisty at times and out of line. I try to watch how I speak to him and how I treat him. I want my behavior with him to clearly let him know how much I believe in him.
I want to recommend two things for you and your marriage that may really help. They are both videos but well worth the money and work you may need to do. The first is FIREPROOF and the second is HE-MOTIONS.
I'm a woman of faith and I believe and have experienced that all things are possible with God.
It sounds like your husband could be a functioning alcoholic and that would fit with him lacking the ability to deal with his daughters illness. It sounds like life has gotten too hard for him, and the only way he can deal with it is by "checking out."
Everyone has different ways of handling stress and while some people step up (like you) others either cant, or wont (like your husband). Unfortunately, his reaction is making life even harder for you. You and your daughter need his support and he is not giving it.
My only suggestion would be to have compassion for him and be empathetic and supportive of him. Be his cheerleader. Ask him what he wants and what he needs, and what you can do to be a better wife. See what you can do to build him up so that he has the strength to be there for you and his daughter.
I DEFINITELY get that you are angry with him - let down by him - furious that he has not been there for his daughter and you. I get that. And people with alot less stress in their lives get divorced over much smaller things - but you asked how you could find a way to love your husband again - and so I gave the suggestion above - the only thing I could think of.
You are the strong one. :)
Edit to add: Just wanted to add that I didnt want to imply that you had NOT been supportive or that you were lacking in any way. I think you sound great!
OH my, first I was going to give my typical response... about communication and dating again and blah blah blah... but this guy has seriously dropped the ball, in a big way. I feel so sorry for you my dear.
I really hate to bring up divorce, but if he moves out, what will be the next step, to will you continue to co-parent and go to counseling during the separation, or is it a step to divorce? Make sure you come to terms with what you are trying to achieve and work towards that.
Is he going to therapy? Job loss is known to cause depression and underachieving results in a lot of men. I wonder if he is severly depressed, causing him to withdraw from the family and his responsibilities.
Do you go to family counseling together? Unemployment on top of your child's cancer are both two huge things that can cause shifts in families stability. Do you have any positive things in your marriage? Still date, communicate, talk, set short and long term goals...?
In understand the travel, my parents traveled 6 hours for my dad's chemo treatments and bone marrow transplants and such. We would have to stay with relatives/friends, or come with and go to new schools for a few months at a time. It's very difficult.
I urge you to at least get some counseling to help you navigate through this, if he refuses to go to couples counseling.
In the meantime, here are a few short (like 3 mins a piece) inspiring videos on marriage, family life and divorce, watch them together:
how to treat your loved ones:
http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?autoplay=true&index...
marriage and divorce:
http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?autoplay=true&index...
let us be men (how to be a good man):
http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?autoplay=true&index...
***a father indeed (an amazing example of fatherhood):
http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?autoplay=true&index...
Lots of hugs.....I would suggest counseling. If that doesn't work out....then you will know what will make you happy. Lots of hugs for your daughter as well.
It sounds like you are pretty much done with him. Losing respect of a man leads to not be in love anymore. Add that he's a dead weight right now (and has been for a while)...hard to find reasons to still be with him. It's your call and your daughter re-birth is probably giving you a deeper perspective on things and people. Life is short, we should really do our best to make the best of it. Good luck.
does she love her father? does he love her back? how much does he do with her or interact with her? Can you live with a man you do not love? if Therapy is not helping, and he is doing NOTHING to alleviate your problems and issues, then its maybe a better idea to not be together in order for you too to move on and provide a better happier environment for your daughter. Many kids have a hard time with split parents but if you stay friendly and on great terms and get out of a toxic relationship early and not let it sour, kids can and do bounce back. If she really is attached to your husband and your differences are something you can work on together, then sometimes just time and effort heals. However it depends how MUCH he has destroyed your ability to trust him. No Trust? no true love. I dont believe in divorcing on a drop of a dime and not trying to work at it Though it seems you have, after you have both made a concerted effort in making it work and it doesnt then there is no problem with getting a divorce... just always put that precious bundle first.
I am so glad you are going to see a therapist. You need a safe place to rant, rave, and share your feelings. You deserve the support.
I know physical illness can cause stress. Having a child with cancer would be almost too much to bear. You are a strong, amazing woman to hold a job and carry this weight. Your daughter has a great mom:-) I wish you both the best and keep reaching out for support. Feeling like a single parent is not fair. He needs to man up, regardless of his problems, and it is NOT your fault that he drinks, etc..
Hi A.!
I am sincerely sorry for what you are...and have been going thru.... with a critically/chronically child...It is a 'roller coaster' ride I do not recommend for the feint of heart.... I send you HUGE HUGS!
Please private me...I can more fully explain/expound on my personal experience with similar (yet different) experiences...
I am sending good thoughts your way for both you...your daughter...and healing for your marriage as well...
My ONE suggestion is to continue counseling FOR YOU so that you can be comfortable...and have some 'tools' in place for whatever YOU decide is best for you...and your family...
HUGS again!
michele/cat
First of all, my hats off to you and your strength.....you sound like an amazing woman and are, no doubt, an amazing Mom. She is so lucky to have you and my heart aches thinking of the hard times you and she have been through. I hope you have people around you that tell you this every day. I wish I could hug you!
Secondly, it can only work if both people want it to work. It's not fair for you to be the only one fighting for this relationship and spending so much time exhausting yourself and your emotions when it seems to me that he's being selfish. I would do the same thing and tell him to go...doesn't seem as though he is bringing much to the table anyway. Plus, he doesn't have to be your husband to be a Father to your daughter....they can still have a relationship just the same as if you were together.
I'm sure you are the last person on your list to take care of and have been for a while, but I think it's time to think about what is best for you now. If he isn't bringing anything positive to your life, he needs to go.
