I understand we have the right to bear arms in this country. But can someone please justify for me why anyone -- aside from cops and soldiers -- should be allowed to have a machine gun? Would you be OK with limiting the types of weapons available to civilians?
ETA -- I apologize for my ignorance of gun terminology. Perhaps "machine gun" is not the right term, but I think you all know what I mean: a weapon that is not meant for hunting, and is more than you would need for self-defense.
Thank you all for your answers. I was nervous to post this question, but I am genuinely curious about how other people think about this, and I am actually reassured. I think we will be able to come to some sort of compromise if people are open to discussion. There is a reasonable middle ground out there.
Clearly, I know nothing about weapons and would rather live in a world without them, but, here I am.
ETA -- I asked a pretty clear question about limiting the types of weapons available to civilians. I am not talking about banning all guns.
Reverend Ruby: I totally agree that mental health care is also a piece of this puzzle.
Just because I can't come up with a reasonable use doesn't mean there isn't a reasonable use. I would imagine you get far enough out in the sticks you would find the ability to shoot a lot of bullets quickly, handy.
Machine guns and AR's (automatic rifles) are not the same. AR's are legal, machine guns are not.
With a machine gun, you attach a belt of ammunition and it will fire as long as you hold the trigger down. I've fired a couple of these as I am a Soldier in the US Army.
With an AR, you switch it from "SAFE" to "SEMI" and it fires one round each time you pull the trigger. Holding it down will not cause it to continue to fire like a machine gun. That's the difference between the two. AR's in the military also have a "BURST" function which allows for a three-round burst. Civilians cannot buy AR's with this option, and even in the military, we seldom use it because it simply isn't for accurate shooting.
Simply put, civilians aren't "allowed" to have machine guns. Machine guns are greated for mass casualty scenarios and massive destruction. There is no purpose for them on the civilian side and they are already limited.
AR's, however, are highly enjoyable for both target shooting and hunting. An M16 or M4 both "kick" about as much as a .22 and are great for teaching kids the fundamentals of hunting, weapons safety, and responsibility.
As I've said before....it's not the weapon that is the problem, it's who HAS the weapon.
Please do your research.
I don't think we can easily make any sweeping generalizations about people who own these guns and how they justify it. But one class of people who do own them would justify it this way: They don't bank on things that you likely bank on. For example, they don't bank on the existence of an adequate police force, a functioning government for the people by the people, a stable currency, gas in the gas stations, food in the grocery stores, a functioning freeway system or peace on U.S. soil. For them a semi automatic weapon is an insurance policy, even a diversified investment if you will.
No they don't want them for hunting or home safety. They want them in case they have to act as their own police force or military should the normal way of life we have become accustomed to cease to exist. They look at the reality of the rise and fall of Nations, collapse of currency, and they don't want to be helpless sitting ducks that put all their faith in a properly functioning government. They don't buy into the normalcy bias that says "I've never experience a collapse of government, or a major disaster and therefore i never will so I don't have to plan for it."
IMO it all ties together with the right to bear arms. When all of this was written so long ago our forefathers wanted the people to always have the right to defend themselves, including against their own government. The way things are going now with Obama people are worried about economic brake down or the US becoming a socialistic country. (Americans have already voted away many of our rights)
If the military and police have automatic weapons to use then why shouldn’t the citizens. Not saying they would ever have to use them. Also keep in mind that someone could easily steal weapons from the police or military, or the people working in those areas of government could take the weapons and snap and go on a shooting spree.
If you look at the states and cities that have the strictest gun laws you will find they also have the highest crime rate. Criminals use illegal guns, all these laws do is give the criminals more power over everyone else because they lose the right to defend themselves.
Also for some people it is like a sport to go and shoot, it doesn’t matter what kind of gun. They enjoy doing it and I am sure it relieves stress.
My brother was schizophrenic, my dad had lots of guns. My dad taught both of us gun safety and how to use guns, he also reloaded his own ammo. We had lots of ammo and lots of guns in the house as well as the ingredients to reload the shells. Gun powder, primers, shot (or the little BB's) all stored in the basement right under the living room. Luckily my brother never flipped out, but he very easily could have. Until my brother was 42, 14 yrs after he graduated from medical school, did my parents FINALLY see that something was wrong with my brother. My Mom felt that since he was a doctor he would know if something was wrong and would get help on his own. I told them he needed help for over 10 years, other family members tried to tell them he needed help ---- finally he had a breakdown and they saw the light.
My brother could have easily flipped out and opened fire on my parents or built a bomb and leveled the house or gone to the mall or a school or a church and killed everyone inside. Luckily, he didn't.
He was killed in a car accident 3 months after he had his breakdown.
GUNS ARE NOT THE PROBLEM ------ MENTAL ILLNESS IS THE PROBLEM!!!!!
The lack of information available to family members, the lack of qualified professionals to help the mentally ill, the lack of hospitals to treat and maybe warehouse the mentally ill ect ect ect.
My brother died because he had to switch doctors and his second doctor took him OFF his meds and did not replace them with a new med. The voices and sleepless nights were back in 3 days, he died on the 5th day of being without meds. ------ Incompentent doctor but my parents would not sue.
95% of the people I know who have shotguns have semi-autos. the magazine holds 2-4 shells. it is the gun of choice for any hunter who would use a shotgun. the semi-auto feature reduces kickback. and the magazine allows you to get multple shots off without having to reload - important if you only wound the animal with the first shot and want to take it down before it runs off an dies a slow miserable death.
that said, i think what you are referring to is the automatic weapons such as the M16's or AK47's. Some of them can shoot fully automatic, but some such as the M16 I shot in the Army can only shoot 3 round bursts or single shots.
It's actually been proven that shooting single shots is more accurate & deadly that fully automatic modes. So to me 'automatic' vs 'semi-auto' is not a factor in gun deaths. It's just that these types of guns seem much scarier to most people?
My gun of choice for home defense? It's the .223 or M16, hands down. Why? Though I've shot many guns in my life, I am most familiar with the M16 from my time in the miltary. I can disassemble and reassemble it with my eyes closed. I know how to use it better than any other gun. I can shoot more accurately with it than any other gun, because I've used it the most.
IMHO, if you take away all the guns, the bad guys are still going to have them. And if all those guns are gone too, they'll resort to other weapons such as cross bows, knives, bombs, or biological weapons.
No reasonable person needs an automatic or semi automatic weapon for protection or for hunting.
Yes, law enforcement should have them.
People buy these weapons at gun shows ALL the time.
Have you been following all of the previously pro-gun politicians that have seen the light after Fridays massacre? It's encouraging.
ETA: 2Boys--you're splitting hairs. It's not hunting that ANYONE is concerned about.
ETA 2: why do people claim that gun control will never stop people from obtaining guns illegally, but banning abortions will stop all abortion?
I grew up in a gun friendly home. My father is a hunter and he and my brother collect guns. It's like any other kind of collection, really who needs 50 different types of china dolls sitting in their house? My husband has a Scottish claymore (Big a** sword). They like guns, like their look, like the way they're made so they collect them. As for the "overkill" guns, I feel they are for collectors. Something bigger and shiney. They take the "big" guns to ranges and fire them there only. I think it's in human nature to like things going boom. We're drawn to destruction, have an odd fascination for it, Reality TV anyone?
I personally don't like guns, never fell as comfortable with them as my brother did, I don't even like toy guns pointed at me. I also got my fair share of education, my dad taught gun safety and some days when he had to teach he was also on duty to watch us so we got it drilled into us on purpose and simply by being in the same room as the class. I also practiced with each gun in his collection growing up. I'm a "dead on" shot so I know if I ever had to stop someone with a firearm, I can. That's enough for me.
Not sure if any one mentioned this, but it takes 3 days and an FBI check to aquire a gun legally. The fact that these incidents happened with legally purchased guns makes me worry about that FBI check, something is flawed. Maybe a mental wellness check instead of an FBI check. Heck, we have a "no fly" list that's so flawed that pre-schoolers with the same names are being detained. Why not a "no-gun" list?
I support the rights of US citizens to keep and bear arms.
I do not think anyone should have access to semi-automatic or automatic weapons.
Please read this:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/2012/12/16/gun_control_a...
This is a solution I absolutely agree with.
I don't care that the guns are shiny/interesting/people are just collectors. Lanza's mother was a collector..... If people cannot be responsible for their guns, they should not have them. Unfortunately, it's pretty much been shown in this horrible tragedy that people can't.
I am for gun rights, but i do agree with you, who needs a machine type gun? I think there should be some limits on that, but then I hesitate to say that, because if there were limits on that, then it would slowly trickle into limits on all guns, and I do not agree with that.
Why reason so many people own guns other than hunting is protection. Everyone seems to forget what happened almost 70 years ago in Germany. Maybe if more Jewish people had owned guns and could defend themselves less would have been murdered by the "police". I know that this more than likely won't happen in the US but who knows, history does have a way of repeating itself. What we should do as a country is stop allowing these violent video games which de humanize things to be sold. We need to educate our children on what guns can do and what they should only be used for. I have a son with ODD, when he plays video games he becomes more aggitated. When he goes hunting, he's calm, collected and at peace with how to use a gun. ( He dose not have access unless his father is around they are in a locked safe in a locked room, and amo is stored in a diff. lockedd safe) It's also parents responsibilty to store their guns in a safe place. The young man who did this crime against children, his Mother was just as much to blame. They were her guns, she knew her son was not 100% right and she dropped the ball. I cry everytime something comes on the news, but at the same time I get angry at this Woman for her carelessness. Really this should be more about gun owners being responsible and being held accountable for the right to own guns. If you are going to own one or more than buy a safe with two locks. Keep the amo somewhere else. DON'T ALLOW anyone access other than the owner.
Updated
Why reason so many people own guns other than hunting is protection. Everyone seems to forget what happened almost 70 years ago in Germany. Maybe if more Jewish people had owned guns and could defend themselves less would have been murdered by the "police". I know that this more than likely won't happen in the US but who knows, history does have a way of repeating itself. What we should do as a country is stop allowing these violent video games which de humanize things to be sold. We need to educate our children on what guns can do and what they should only be used for. I have a son with ODD, when he plays video games he becomes more aggitated. When he goes hunting, he's calm, collected and at peace with how to use a gun. ( He dose not have access unless his father is around they are in a locked safe in a locked room, and amo is stored in a diff. lockedd safe) It's also parents responsibilty to store their guns in a safe place. The young man who did this crime against children, his Mother was just as much to blame. They were her guns, she knew her son was not 100% right and she dropped the ball. I cry everytime something comes on the news, but at the same time I get angry at this Woman for her carelessness. Really this should be more about gun owners being responsible and being held accountable for the right to own guns. If you are going to own one or more than buy a safe with two locks. Keep the amo somewhere else. DON'T ALLOW anyone access other than the owner.
Updated
Why reason so many people own guns other than hunting is protection. Everyone seems to forget what happened almost 70 years ago in Germany. Maybe if more Jewish people had owned guns and could defend themselves less would have been murdered by the "police". I know that this more than likely won't happen in the US but who knows, history does have a way of repeating itself. What we should do as a country is stop allowing these violent video games which de humanize things to be sold. We need to educate our children on what guns can do and what they should only be used for. I have a son with ODD, when he plays video games he becomes more aggitated. When he goes hunting, he's calm, collected and at peace with how to use a gun. ( He dose not have access unless his father is around they are in a locked safe in a locked room, and amo is stored in a diff. lockedd safe) It's also parents responsibilty to store their guns in a safe place. The young man who did this crime against children, his Mother was just as much to blame. They were her guns, she knew her son was not 100% right and she dropped the ball. I cry everytime something comes on the news, but at the same time I get angry at this Woman for her carelessness. Really this should be more about gun owners being responsible and being held accountable for the right to own guns. If you are going to own one or more than buy a safe with two locks. Keep the amo somewhere else. DON'T ALLOW anyone access other than the owner.
Updated
Why reason so many people own guns other than hunting is protection. Everyone seems to forget what happened almost 70 years ago in Germany. Maybe if more Jewish people had owned guns and could defend themselves less would have been murdered by the "police". I know that this more than likely won't happen in the US but who knows, history does have a way of repeating itself. What we should do as a country is stop allowing these violent video games which de humanize things to be sold. We need to educate our children on what guns can do and what they should only be used for. I have a son with ODD, when he plays video games he becomes more aggitated. When he goes hunting, he's calm, collected and at peace with how to use a gun. ( He dose not have access unless his father is around they are in a locked safe in a locked room, and amo is stored in a diff. lockedd safe) It's also parents responsibilty to store their guns in a safe place. The young man who did this crime against children, his Mother was just as much to blame. They were her guns, she knew her son was not 100% right and she dropped the ball. I cry everytime something comes on the news, but at the same time I get angry at this Woman for her carelessness. Really this should be more about gun owners being responsible and being held accountable for the right to own guns. If you are going to own one or more than buy a safe with two locks. Keep the amo somewhere else. DON'T ALLOW anyone access other than the owner.
Even though we do own a few of these guns, I happen to agree with you. My husband was pretty staunch on not limiting them as it was 'our right', but I think even he is starting to agree.
In reality the only thing a ban would do is prevent anyone else from getting them, it will not take them away from people who bought them legally. I wouldn't even hand mine over. I don't know many who would.
I have to disagree with 2boys...in LA there's lots of AR rifles on the streets so I do think cops should have them. I don't think regular people should but that's not reality seeing as so many out out there and there's always going to be a way to get them.
