Teaching Common Sense

My Mom always said "You are an adult when you can see something that needs to be done and you just do it".
Most 8 year olds just are not there.
My 13 yr old is getting pretty good at hitting most of the usual chores but he misses one every once in awhile.
It just takes time (years) and practice.
Keep on her.

She is 8. She does not care about messes, they do not bother her.

She does not even notice them. This is a typical response for this aged child.

You will need to not take this personally, but instead, continue to parent guide her.

"Honey, please pick up that wrapper you dropped and put it in the trash, while you are at it, go ahead and take the trash out to the can, and thank you for remembering to put a new liner in the trash can."

My sister and I were just talking about this the other day. She has three boys, 6,8,10 and I have a 5. What we both like to do (besides charts) is to make *them* notice what needs to be done.

So when my son has left toys all over the floor and asks me for something, I might say "Oh, you forgot something in the living room. Take care of that first, please." THEN he has to work at noticing "Oh, the lincoln logs are all over the floor. I'd better put them away." If he comes back and asks 'what?" instead, I don't give him any attention, just "Oh, go back and look. Figure it out."

I should say, too, that he *does* get it most of the time.

By *not* spelling it out for them, that's what makes their brains have to pay attention and work. It's little like having to look up a phone number instead of having it on speed dial... the more you have to look at it, look it up and dial it manually, the better the chances are that we remember it.

And mean mom that I am, I have been known to put off desired outings or snacks or other requests because he's just taking his sweet time figuring things out. (This is more of a natural consequence than a punishment.) But unless there's a specific request of "mom, I need your help" or "Please show me what to do", I let him work it out on his own.

If my son ignores me and then wonders what I asked him to do (for example, if we were going out and I asked him to go potty and get his shoes on) I first tell him "close your eyes and think about what I just said. See if you can figure it out." If that didn't work, I might then prompt "What do you usually need to do before we go out?" At this point, it generally clicks in.

Oh, and anything to do with pets comes before she gets her breakfast. Pets cannot care for themselves--- no breakfast until the animals have their needs met.

I think a good start would be for you to understand what you are speaking of is not common sense. It is powers of observation and understanding her social contract. Common sense would be that it pisses you off but I don't get that is what you are going for.

Social contracts are the give and take we learn as we grow up that makes us viable members of society. Socially it is if we hog toys and are mean to others we have no friends. In the home it is what we do to make life easier for mom in return for what she does for us, like cook dinner.

If you make it plain to her, I can't do this for you because I had to pick up this... We no longer have time for this privilege this morning because I had to remind you twenty times to put clothes on... It is pointing out what was lost to her because she didn't hold up her end of the social contract.

For ACTUAL common sense... We play the 'And then what?' game.

So you throw the _____ on the roof. And then what?
It gets stuck.

So you snap at your friend. And then what?
So you cut your pants? And then what?
So you climb the tree. And then what?

What you're describing are learned habits and behaviors. Most of which (unless drilled thousands of times) are not automatic for children.

Which is probably part of the problem. You see them as automatic / common sense. Habits and observation linked behaviors typically take 1000 repetitions before they're automatic, for ADULTS... For kids, it's 1000 times per cognitive milestone.

((Ahem. I'm not making this number up. 1000 times for the 'habit' -and 3000 to break a habit. It translates to every single day for 2.5 years to gain a habit, and 7+ to break one . Kids go through so many cognitive leaps, that although you can lay the foundation, it's not really until the next to last -around age 14- that these things start to stick on their own. The brain is still developing, and every time it lays a new level down, stuff gets lost. Thers a really good reason why bat/bar mitvahs happen at that age.))

Bottom line... you can't 'teach' common sense, IMO. You can teach social skills, graces, manners etc. But not common sense.
One person to the next, our brains are wired different. Things just just click differently. Even as adults.

It's pretty typical for kids this age to be in their own worlds and not really aware of things like a pile of clothes or an item left out of the fridge. So it's not a matter of her being resistant or naturally sloppy -- it's part of the stage where she is, but that doesn't mean there's nothing you can do.

Do you tell her "Clean up your room"? Because kids don't do well with large, general instructions like that. Can you break it down so it seems more manageable to her? For instance: At the same time every day, with you there, she does a sweep of her room: "PIck up the clothes and put them in the hamper. Pick up those books that are on the bed and put them on the top shelf." Yes, I know it seems she should be able to SEE these things and do them on her own, but obviously she isn't, so Break. It. Down. Don't give her ten instructions, give her two, and if you must, use a timer. Then praise her like crazy when she's done even those two small tasks. Again -- I understand that you may feel like: "Why should I praise and praise her for doing something that is normal, everyday stuff?!" But she is eight, and still not aware of how much normal, everyday stuff it takes to just keep things going in a house. In other words -- expect a little less, be very specific and clear about a very few things (pick your battles!), and praise her when she does well, instead of being "on her so much."

Also, do you give any consistent consequences for her actions? Consequences that you set in advance and discuss with her when things are good and calm between you, so she knows what will happen the next time she does (or does not do) thing X?

For instance: If she leaves food out of the fridge, she must clean out the fridge, wash the shelves, etc. (Yes, you would have to supervise, but that's part of getting the message across.) If she leaves the garage door open, she must clean up the garage. And so on. It does make more work for you, because you have to supervise -- and you have to stay calm as you institute the consequence you set in advance. But it might help her connect her small actions with large consequences.

My daughter is 11 and very neat -- her room is the neatest in the house and she reminds herself "I need to put those books away today" and does it. But she also still sometimes needs to be reminded to do X or Y around the house, despite her being older and pretty responsible. So this does go on for years, but it can change. Be sure you don't let this all become a battle between you. Focus on what she does right, have set consequences for when she doesn't do what she must, and be certain you are communicating with her clearly about what you expect each day -- not a long laundry list of things but fewer ones. I hope it works out but do be aware -- this is an area where things go on for years, not a few months. She won't change in a few weeks of consequences.

It's the age. My 9 year old is doing the same thing. He didn't do this stuff when he was 3. CONSEQUENCES!!!!

Here's what I did...and it's working. Video games and money is what he responds to, so before he can play any video games (and we allow very little in our home and no TV), he has to be showered, dressed, use deodorant, brush his teeth, take his vitamins and get his summer math and reading (we do those all year long) done. Guess what???? He hasn't forgotten once!

I charge him money for leaving the lights on, wearing his white socks outside without shoes!!!!, not washing off his dishes - anything that we'd have to hire someone to do...because I SHOULD get paid for being a maid, if that's what he want me to do. So far, he's remembered to turn off all lights, only had to fine him once for the sock thing and he hasn't forgotten to clear his dishes, rinses them and place them in the dishwasher.

Good luck!

PS I have to take dresses away from my daughter for consequences. That's the only thing she cares about right now.

Not there yet as a parent, but I can tell you I absolutely hated being on the receiving end of this as a child. Mom had lists and adages on the bathroom mirror, over the dresser, would prompt what comes next, would give explanations for why things are done, and would ask why we did/ didn't do a certain thing.

I just want to give you a word of caution as you go down this route, be careful to recognize that your daughter might have good intentions, and motivation, but methods and thought processes different than your own, but nonetheless valid ones. You may go about thing differently, and therefore lack a "commonality" in your sense.

i.e. I was tasked with doing laundry for the family. Mom would routinely sort the laundry as she hung it on the line, i.e. socks would be paired, t-shirts together, each persons stuff would be hung separately. I would hang stuff haphazardly, whatever came to hand first would be next on the line. In her mind, her's was the neat and orderly way of doing things, plus it saved her from sorting on the tail end. I thought my way was better because I wouldn't be walking up and down the line with heavy wet articles in hand, trying to guestimate what went where and how much room each person needed etc. Either way got the job done.

Each of us was applying "sense", in this case, it was not common between us.

Good luck to you and yours,
F. B.

This is one of the most annoying things about being a parent. You are like a repetitive parrot, I hate it too!
But after three kids I have just accepted the fact that this is normal. Kids just don't care about the mess on the floor or brushing their teeth or whether or not the trash is overflowing.
Mine pretty much had to be told and reminded to do most of these things until they were 13/14. At that point they seem to suddenly notice their surroundings and they start paying more attention to their personal hygiene. In short, they start growing up, yay!!!
At 13, 16 and 19 my kids still need reminders here and there but it is MUCH better than it was when they were younger, so hang in there, it doesn't last forever :)

I would buy or create a daily chore chart for her and have her check off each thing as it gets done. This is typical behavior for an 8 year old and as she gets older she will be able to do these things without being reminded.

I have to constantly remind my 13 year old what he needs to do to pick stuff up. And I can get him to do a lot more than my 10 year old. And even if you have one kid that grasps that concept at a certain age does not mean that the others will. My oldest has done a lot more a lot earlier. Part of it's focus. Not call kids have that and some that do don't have it in the morning when they wake up. To me it's not common sense.

I guess you have figured out that common sense is not all that common.

I would ask my kids, "What did you forget? or What did you forget to do?"

Hazel W has the right idea. You have to instill in them responsibility. When they had to start paying for electricity, it still didn't sink in to turn the lights off. When I took the money they paid for electricity and put in in a jar so that when they were a little short and wanted to borrow a tank of gas, I told them to count the money in the jar and take a tank of gas out of it. Then I would tell them that the money was their electric money for leaving the lights on, it began to click. When my last two left the home at the same time, our electric utilities went down from $160 per month to $69 per month.

My youngest is 24. They are still learning.

Practice, practice, practice, that's how your kids acquire common sense.

Good luck to you and yours.

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Ahhh! I think I understand! Some people have less developed "executive function" it is called. Back in the days before testing and labels, and such, what some parents would do is early on, is help the child compensate for whatever they needed like introduce children to lists and lists and lists! It was a very "common sense" approach to parenting.

Some things could involve the child - come up with ways to remember to flush the toilet, turn off a light, etc.

Other things that are routines can be lists. At first, each thing may be very detailed, like a general list for morning, afterschool, bedtime, or even a simple chore... with detailed lists for each step.

Example - one step in the morning routine might be get breakfast. Let's say the child is having a bowl of cereal. The detailed steps might be, assuming bowl and spoon are out -- Get out box of cereal and pour into bowl. CLOSE up cereal bag and box. PUT box BACK into cupbord. CLOSE cupboard door. Get milk out of fridge. CLOSE fridge door. Pour milk into bowl. CLOSE milk carton. Put milk back into fridge. CLOSE fridge door. Eat cereal. RINSE bowl and spoon. PUT bowl and spoon into dishwasher.

EACH and every item must be checked off after each task is completed.

After months, parts of that can get compressed because things do become habit... eventually.

Knowing something is in place can really help with frustration - both yours and hers. It isn't her "fault" but there is some learning necessary - with a lot of help on your part. It can take a LOT of initial work on your part to begin with, but it is very much worth it in the end. We always need to give our kids the tools they need to accomplish whatever they need to accomplish.

I think you're confusing common sense with a child's natural mind. Kids are still learning how to organize things in their mind. They're still learning how to apply the concept of consequences and the natural flow of things that happen in a sequence. So closing a garage door after playing isn't really something that any 8 year old I've even known, would naturally do without prompting. After many months & years of doing things a child will eventually learn to follow the pattern. My almost 13 yr old son now knows to bring the empty garbage cans up the drieway from the road - but it took about 2 years of me stopping at the bottom of the driveway every day on our way home from school. First I'd have to tell him to bring them up, after a few months I'd just stop the car and wait for him to realize why I was stoppping, and now, finally he'll tell me to stop. There were plenty of days when taking the bus that he'd walk right past them as he headed up the driveway - and then he had to retrace his steps. But it was never something on his radar before that time - he probably didn't even notice the garbage cans.

Kids need to be told things about a thousand times before it seems to stick. That's not a scientific number - but based on raising kids and talking to other parents that seems to be the number. Well - maybe it's really closer to 500. That translates to telling your child the same thing, every day, for about 1 and half years before it sticks. So that means telling your kids to pick up his dirty clothes off the floor and put them in the hamper every day for more than a year. So for things that aren't every day (like the garbage) it may take more than a year and a half.

Cleaning up the ktichen after dinner, doing the dishwasher and feeding the cats has seemed to take about 2 years for my kids - but they're finally getting it and I don't have to tell them every single day. (but they're almost 13 and almost 16)

Your daughter is 8 - she's not 15. Cut her some slack. And just as an aside - most 8 yr olds shouldn't need to bathe every day in the winter (in the summer probably yes) and deodorant, unless she's already in puberty, is probably also premature. But telling your kid to brush her teeth every morning and every night will continue until she's a teen and is aware of her breath and wants white shiny teeth. Telling her to turn off the lights? There's not a kid in the world who doesn't need to have her parents remind her of that - until about age 20!!

I think you're really expecting adult behavior from an 8 yr old. She doesn't understand that it costs money to have the lights on - and when when she does she still won't remember to turn the lights off. She will walk right past a mess without cleaning it up - she's 8. Consider this - she's been on the earth for 8 years. If you were transplanted to a foreign country how long would it take you to fully understand the customs? And you're an adult - she's 8. So unless she's got an obsessive compulsive disorder you will be reminding her to do things for another 10 years. Relax. It's perfectly normal - that's why kids have parents. If they were miniature adults they wouldn't need us.

I say make the chart...

Reminding her to check off the chart is a lot easier then reminding her to do each individual thing?!

~With my kids I like to give them 3 tasks in a row, it helps them (or at least I hope it helps them) remember more than just one thing at a time and gets their brain involved in the tasks at hand instead of just mindlessly picking up toys or brushing their teeth, ya know? So, I would say 'W, brush your teeth, get your shoes on and make your bed' and then he has to get engaged and follow through with all of them.

I have a grip of kids (20, 17, 16, 12, 8, 6 & 4) and ALL of them have to be reminded not to just step over the toys or trash or whatever it may be and I have to tell them constantly 'Hey, how about you pick that up not just step over it'....not sure when that will ever kick in, hopefully one day soon...at least with my youngest 3 who are all mine and I have the power to have been telling these things ALL their little lifes!!

Perhaps you should take a different approach. Give praise and rewards for doing a task without being reminded. Set up a positive chart and note each thing done without prompts in one area - say hygiene. Make the rewards simple and quick to start, say 3 things. When this is consistent for a week, there is a bigger reward and the reward may take longer to get. This idea can be expanded to all areas. I had 2 boys and was always telling them what to do. I felt like I was talking to the wall. One day, my son said why should I remember to do it when you will tell me anyway. I stopped yelling and quit tidying their rooms. For me, I stopped having headaches and calmed down. For the boys, it made a huge difference when we were going some where and they didn't have the clean clothes they wanted to wear. Eventually, they took turns fixing a meal each week.

LOL, several of those comments sound just like my husband, and he is 38!!

Your daughter sounds normal.

I would say that establishing routines is the way to get around this. She needs a morning routine and an evening routine to start out with. She will need you to write it out and you will have to guide her through it many times until it becomes part of her.

My daughter LIKED her checklist (which we put in a plastic sleeve and she marked everything off with a dry erase marker) because it made her feel "grown up" and I didn't have to nag except to say "check your list and see if you did everything."

My daughter will walk past a mess many times, but as part of her evening routine she needs to pick up everything that's hers out of the living room. That's fine with me.

Now, my daughter doesn't need her checklist anymore (she's now 10) and she does a great job with her morning routine and evening routine without even being asked.

She left the milk out once and it spoiled so she had to buy a new carton with her allowance. It has never happened again. For a little while we charged 10 cents if you left a light on. She doesn't leave lights on anymore.

Just stay with it, mama! She will learn eventually. Just be patient!

I would say yes, make her a chart or 2 - one for self-care in the bathroom/bedroom and one for chores in the kitchen, and to start there has to be some reward/consequence for doing/not doing chores/routine (later when she gets good at it, it will become automatic and reward will not be needed - althought consequences will still be in place if there are any slip ups). Then at least you don't have to tell her every little step/thing, one at a time - you just say "Did you do your routine/chart/chores?". Sit down and talk to her about it , she is not a baby, and she is part of the family, and as such she needs to be responsible for herself and her things, as well as some family /household chores to make the home run smoothly. Ask for her input to get her buy-in to the plan - maybe she would rather feed the fish than water the dog, or sweep the kitchen floor each evening rather than put away the clean dishes. Maybe put a checklist in the shower - a laminated list that says 1. shower, 2. deodorant, 3. brush teeth, 4. get dressed. Then one on the door you always leave out of that says CHORES: Pick up and put away your stuff - turn off all lights not in use - water the dog - Homework done - permission slips?? Backpack loaded for school? Maybe even divide them into Before school and After school chores. Organization and routines are not naturally occurring things in kids, they do have to be taught. Then once the ground rules are decided/explained, and a plan/charts/routine is in place, put the responsibility all on her, and don't nag/remind/etc. just implement the related reward or consequence for completed/incomplete items.

You could make some things more automatic - ask her for ideas - "What would make it easier for you to get this( teeth brushing, shoes on, remember deodorant?) done?" Like maybe keep her shoes in her bedroom, and lay out the outfit for the day , the night before, WITH SHOES, and have her put on everything all at once, in the morning. Maybe lay her toothbrush out next to her cereal bowl, and/or put the toothbrush and deodorant right in the shower to use in there, before she even steps out of there. Keep the backpack alway sin one place and do homework always in one spot, and re-load it into the backpack as it gets done. As for the dog water, I would say get the dog a self-filling bowl with a large water container on top....you can't let the natural consequence of the dog becoming dehydrated happen there because it hurts the dog....either that, or make it your own job, or part of a routine/do it in the evening, after supper/before bed, rather than in the rushed morning of trying to get out of the house to school or work or daycare.

As for consequences, if she gets an allowance or has a piggy bank/savings, start docking it for the food left out/spoiled, lights or other things left on, wasting energy or anything else that costs you/the family money. If she doesn't get up and brush her teeth, she will have stinky breath all day, same for deodorant, remind her of this and that maybe her friends won't appreciate her stinkiness. As for the dog getting watered/she has to give up allowance money to "pay" you or a sibling to do her dog watering job for her. When she leaves the garage door open, take away her bike or whatever else she keeps in there, as a semi-realistic/related consequence for a certain amount of time - the rest of the week, since leaving it open can result in things getting stolen. Or make her sweep out the garage every time she leaves it open - since leaves and stuff blow in there when the door is left open. If she leaves messes on the floor - if they are her things/toys, not where they belong, take them away too, eventually she will have nothing left to leave lying around, if it is something else, that she is responsible for, put it in the middle of her bedroom floor and see if she notices/picks it up then. Related/natural consequences teach common sense the best, because they are the natural result of the kids' lack of responsibility/forethought, they have to realize there are consequences, or what is their motivation to do things - if we always just pick up after them/bail them out or rescue them, they have no reason to do it for themselves.

For rewards - weekly keep track of how many things she does without you nagging, and when she has whatever you consider a good week ( establish this at the meeting you have at the beginning of this process) she gets to go out for ice cream or get 1 new shirt, or spend time with you alone, uninterrupted, whatever prize motivates her the most, let her give you ideas.

Good Luck!

Sounds like my 9 year old. My dreamer. My head-in-the-clouds kid.
I'm hoping age 10 brings it on! (But OI'm not holding my breath!)