Vomiting While Trying to Win the Battle of Control Crying

Dear M.,

My heart goes out to you. The no-cry sleep solution is a great book that might be of help to you.

Good luck,
C.

M.
he will sleep on his own in the long run but this control crying should be thrown out of the window. whoever told you that a 10 month old can go through this and be fine is wrong
CIO is done when the child starts understanding what's going on. two years old at the earliest is when i recommend it.
good luck

Your son is still a baby and needs his parents to comfort him. I would think the CIO method would work with 3 years and up,when they are just being naughty, but never with a baby. He understands a lot at 10 months, but Im sure he doesnt understand why he is abandoned every night. Make sure he has a night light and some soft music and then sit with him until he goes to sleep. Once his bedtime becomes more pleasant, it will be easier.

I think you need to follow your insticts. Do you really think its right to let your son throw up because he is so upset? He is clearly not developmentally ready for whatever it is that you are trying to do. Some children need more of a gentler approach. I would not continue this new approach.

Hi M.,

It sounds like you've got your hands full. Having a 2yr. old and a 10 1/2 mth. old is a lot on your plate.

By the end of the day you've been good parents, providing everything your children need. When it's bed time, you need a well deserved adult time (don't feel guilty) and, your children require their rest.

You may not be in the mood but I suggest making the 1/2 hour or hour before bed a quiet, calm, special time. It may take time to adjust to it and get into the routine but stick with it. Read lots of books or just make up fun stories,or whatever works for your babies, but be sure to keep it calm. And, having classical music playing low in the backround does wonders (sounds goofy but it really works). VERY IMPORTANT!!!- Both mom and dad have to take turns!! It's better for the baby, and no one feels left out. - Believe me, once you've established a good bedtime routine, the other sleep times should fall into place.

I know it's VERY hard when your child is a difficult sleeper. I had one. - Talk to him soothingly while you're having your quiet time, about the fact that after the SPECIAL time, it will be WONDERFUL bedtime. Make sleepy time sound FABULOUS! Stick to your guns!!! They need their rest.

Good luck,
E. M.

I feel your pain and frustration. When it happens say nothing, but clean him up and put him back in bed. I can only pray your son isn't as stong willed as mine.... he did this everynight for months!!!

The cry it out method DID NOT WORK for either of my daughters. I HATE IT when people suggest that I did not do it right or that I might be lying about it.
My first daughter ended up having enlarged adenoids. Basically, I was making her sick and her breathing/sleeping worse. She ended up hating her crib and having a harder time at bed and nap time. At 18 months, a big girl bed and shaved adenoids, she started sleeping like a rock star on her own. No sleep training needed.
Now, I am still working on the second daughter but I do know that one day she will actually sleep.
Ask your doctor what might be bothering him; ears, adenoids, Sensory Integration Disorder you name it. Maybe its not his fault that he cant fall asleep. Remember its not your fault either.

If you get him out after an hour of crying, it sounds like he has learned that if he cries long enough you will get him. However, an hour is a really long time and it seems that like you said, he is so tired, he gets worked up more. You don't say how he was falling asleep before, was he rocked to sleep? Nursed to sleep? Bottle? If he was used to eating before sleeping, change his routine so he is not eating to fall asleep. Ie. at bedtime do bottle, then bath, story and bed, rather than having the bottle be last thing. Just keep trying and be consistant... it IS important for children to be able to soothe themselves to sleep and learn ways to calm themselves, and he is not too young for this, he has just never done it before. Since he is so overtired, this is making it worse. Maybe you could start by continueing the same routine at naps for now, and just work on bedtime. This way he won't be overtired at bedtime, and maybe it won't be so hard. Good Luck. The only personal advice I have is to start as a newborn, putting your child down groggy, but not asleep... but it is too late for that. I hope you find a solution!!

How would you like to fall asleep every night after crying yourself into exhaustion? Doesn't sound like much fun to me. Put the book away and follow your mom instincts. Set up an evening routine to relax him before putting him down for the night.

I don’t think any book has a solution, and each child is different… but one technique we tried with our daughter was the lay down technique. We’ve tried it at night and it seems to work… but she still makes a fuss every night. (she’s 12 months). The book was called ‘save our sleep’… but by no means is it a miracle like it sort of claims to be (at least not for our daughter).

Basically you lie him in the crib, he’ll get up and stand… let him stand and lie him down again… he’ll try to stand again, so let him get up and stand, then lie him down again… it says to keep doing this like 15 times and then just leave the room. He’ll probably be standing and fussing or crying big time, but just leave him... For our daughter she was asleep within 20 minutes - - we set our own limits and depending on the kind of cry we can tell if she’s just angry or truly upset. There was big crying the first night, but each night she makes less and less fuss and one night even talked herself to sleep. The second night you do the same, but lay him down 8 times instead of 15… the third night less times, till finally you just lay him down and he should by now know what you are asking him to do.

I guess they say the state in which you put your baby to sleep, they wake up and expect to go to sleep the same way they were put down... so if you nurse him to sleep he’ll want to be nursed back to sleep in the middle of the night. So if he settles himself initially he should be able to settle himself throughout the night. We’ve been letting her fuss around at night without getting her or going in to see her and she’s been putting herself to sleep very quickly.

Worth a try and see if it works for you. We waited till she was 1 because I believe she understands quite a bit now, much more than she lets on, and it took her no time to understand I was asking her to lie down and sleep…

Good luck.

I felt compelled to write because I've seen posts from women who express strong opposition to the CIO method. I'm not. I let my little girl CIO and we were successful but every child is different. You've got to change it up. What you're doing clearly isn't working. I'm sure you are but, first of all, you need to make sure all of his needs are met before you put him down (he's dry, no hungry or thirsty, etc). Then try putting him down at different times - don't let him get overtired. Finally, I suggest getting him a fan, noisemaker or light projector - or all three. They can be very soothing and create a distraction while you sneak out of the room. Good luck!

I do not understand the concept of "control crying"?

From the very title of this question- "win the battle"- it sounds as though you are in a fight with a 10 month old. My very best advice, from deep within the trenches of mothering, is that any "parenting strategy" that involves pitting yourself against your child in a battle of the wills in attitude or in practice, is not going to help either one of you... When you need to set boundaries or assert authority, it should always be from a place of wanting to be your child's ALLY, encouraging your child to trust and cooperate with you so you can teach them the life skills (like good sleep habits) they need. Your child will grow to view you as an ally when you attribute positive intentions to them, empathize with their feelings, and set boundaries out of a spirit of helping/protecting, not punishing/winning/controlling. So rather than looking at him as a minipulative or defiant being, you can change your mindset to view him as a person who has trouble falling asleep; he doesn't possess the skills to fall asleep on his own right now; he is not trying to manipulate you, he is only trying to get his needs met and he has no other idea how to do it then express frustration (cry). If he vomits, it is not out of spite or rebellion, it is because he is so upset he is physiologically ill... Elizabeth Pantley wrote No Cry Sleep Solution, it was highly recommended to me...

It't no coincidence that the fairytale mother rocks her baby to sleep with a lullaby. I've done this with both my children, and this never translated into them not being able to "put themselves to sleep"- any more than me feeding them with a spoon translated into them not being able to feed themselves when they were developmentally ready.

M.. I know what you're going through. My third son used to throw-up if he cried and it didn't take a long cry for him to throw up. So, I used to clean him up and just let him sit on my lip and he would fall sleep in my arms. Then at some point, my husband got him to sleep in his crib by himself at 18 months and at 21 months started all over again, only he can climb out and come out to us. So, now, I just let him sit in the living room and let him fall sleep and then my husband puts him in the crib and he most of the time sleeps through the night. Also, we have trouble getting him to stay in the crib until whatever time. Like this morning, he woke up at 4:30Pm, I think, and I was so tired and he would lay still without tossing and turning in our bed. So, I know it won't be forever so I don't get frustrated. Whatever the reason is he gets up so early, I have no idea and didn't experience this with our other two. You said that he's a mama's boy...well, that may be it. He needs your comfort and your touch (don't let him nor his brother know that, though). It won't be forever but it seems forever when you're in the situation. Hopeall works well.

We tried the Cry it out method several differnet times with my son and decided he wasn't ready for it. Sounds like your son isn't either if he is puking. We just tried it again with our son now that he is 18 months and he is doing great and it seems that he was now ready for it and understands what bedtime and Goodnight are and that mommy and daddy will be there when he wakes up. I think you should wait a while and then try again.

We tried "control crying" at 10 months too. We even spent a fortune to hire a sleep consultant to spend the night with us for 3 nights in a row. It was awful. Our daughter cried for hours and hours the first night, and she ended up falling asleep in her puke (because the consultant didn't believe me when I said that I thought I heard her vomit). She vomited every night for 10 nights in a row when i finally decided that I couldn't take it (the crying and the laundry) anymore. So, we greatly modified the nighttime routine that the consultant worked out for us. We went from 5-7 wakings per night to 2-3 wakings per night. We felt that was much better than before. We purchased a video monitor which helped us decide when to enter her room (laying down and crying didn't merit us going in but her standing up and wailing did). Sometimes just patting her back to sleep worked and other times we had to pick her up and occasionally offer water or milk. Several months later, we learned that she had undiagnosed acid reflux. A few weeks into her treatment for reflux, she started sleeping through the night (8pm to 5am, then usually back to sleep for another hour or two). We had no idea that she had a medical reason for not being able to sleep through the night. Crying it out would never have worked for her. Good luck! I know how tired you must be.

I also would suggest the book No Cry Sleep Solution. I'm not a fan of CIO, but I know it does work for some kids. Yours does not sound like one of them! Even Ferber and Weissbluth - 2 sleep 'experts' who advocate 'controled crying' - say if puking is an issue, then it's probably not the right method for your child.

No Cry Sleep Solution by Elizabeth Pantley worked wonders for us. It will take a while, and there are sometimes a few tears, but you are always there to comfort so it never gets to the puking point.

Good luck!

Wow, I would try reading a different book. CIO works with some babies but not all. If your baby has a temperment that resists CIO, you may have to be flexible and try something else. I know how much you want sleep but crying to the point of vomiting is NOT ok, now matter what that particular "expert" said. I recommend the Baby Sleep Book by Dr. Sears. It may give you some other ideas.

Dear M.,

I would advise against the CIO method. When children are upset and cry for a period of time their stress hormone, cortisol is elevated. Their blood pressure is also elevated during this time. New research is being done that shows the CIO method is not as great as most people think. Just like putting a baby down to sleep on their tummies was once the norm and recommended by pediatricians now we know that its not what's best for our kids.

As exceedingly inconvinient as it is, your son is crying because he needs you and doesn't have the words to tell you what's wrong. Sleep patterns can be interrupted by a number of things: teething, a growth spurt, a cold coming on, hitting a milestone like walking, or just plain old separation anxiety.

I don't think letting your child cry for hours until he vomits will help you teach him to sleep, and I know that advocates of the CIO method agree. Rock him to sleep if that's what works. He will get through it and be more confident knowing that he can count on you. You will soon miss the days of rocking your little one to sleep.

Good luck,

R.

I totally agree that there r some things that we try to put a damper on, but sometimes there r things that I find to just be a part of having children - my oldest did the whole vomitting thing too & to be quite honest w/u she ended up w/one of us in her bed at night quite a bit or sneaking into our bed until she was about 6. Sometimes I think that the more you try to keep things from happening, the worse they sometimes can be. I'm not saying that if something works for u that u shouldn't do it, but I think that it's perfectly normal for a baby to cry. Good luck & please don't take offense to what i've written - I don't mean it in a bad way.

throw that book away and just love on your baby. he's only a baby for so long anyway. listen to his cues and be there for him. I know you love him anyway, but he's crying because he needs you. and not to be by himself. I wish you the best.

Hi M., I went through something similar recently; check out my question and all of the great responses I got: http://www.mamasource.com/request/13306851119251652609

What worked for me? In short, I gave my son dinner at 4:30/5 PM and nothing to drink afterward. Bedtime is 7 PM, which means nothing is in his tummy at bedtime when he would get himself all worked up ... which also meant no more vomiting when he was upset. It has been 8 weeks since the last episode -- and for a while he was puking up to 3 times in a day. It was agonizing ...

While our sons are different ages (mine was about 13 months when his on-command and over-tired-related vomiting started), perhaps some of the tips from other moms or my suggestion of cutting out liquids/solids 2 hours before bedtime will give you a bit of a reprieve.

Good luck to you. I know how hard this is ...

Dear M.,

Please listen to your baby on this one! Different children have different temperaments, and harsh "sleep training" methods are NOT appropriate for all children. This has been confirmed by none other than one of the most popular "sleep gurus" of our time, Dr. Richard Ferber, who has issued a strong warning about his own method: it's not appropriate for all children, and for some, it may be quite harmful. Your son WILL learn to self-soothe, I promise; he's just not ready yet. And sleep in general will be much less problematic if he's not "trained" in a traumatizing way.

Sounds like a lot of uncessary stress just to get to sleep. If I had to endure that every night I wouldn't want to go to sleep either! Maybe b/c its so stressful he's just feeling anxiety from the start and can't settle down to begin with. He WILL eventually learn to sleep on his own, perhaps this just isn't want he needs right now at his very young age! I couldn't put my baby through that, not sure he is learning anything positive by crying until he vomits. He needs love and comfort and, well, I'm going to give it to him. He can sleep on his own, he does fall asleep on his own at times, he sleeps through the night, so I don't feel he is learning anything "bad" from giving him to much comfort. I think you need to readjust your thinking and find another "method" that works a bit better for your family. I'll go ahead and say it, I am COMPLETELY anti CIO. This may work for some people and all these "money making methods" maybe work too but I just feel that LOVE and Comfort might make it easier and might make our children and this world a better place "in the long run". I'd rather have a peaceful comforting bed time than follow any of these CIO methods. He is only a baby and eventually he WILL grow up and be on his own.

Is "control crying" the same thing as sleep training? I don't believe in sleep training, but you are free to do as you believe, but it sounds like this is not working for you or for your baby. How long do you plan to let this go on? I hate to hear myself saying this but have you read Dr Ferber's book? While I absolutely don't believe in or condone sleep training CIO method, his book is the "bible" of sleep training and I think even he would say after a week if your baby is still crying for hours, this isn't working and it's cruel. Maybe you want to try Jody Mindell's book, or the No Cry Sleep Solution, which I think is by Elizabeth Pantley but I could be wrong there. Why does your 10 month old need to put himself to sleep? Is he waking often in the night? If this is just getting him down to sleep, is this screaming and puking really better than rocking him for a bit?

This doesn't sound like a very good process. I had to teach both my kids to fall asleep as well, but this is what I did (with out tears). I would start the bedtime routine the same way every night. Upstairs, (sometimes bath) pj's on, read a book. Then lights out and we'd rock with the music on (I play soft music for my kids, it helps ALOT) and a cup of milk. At first, I'd start with them mostly asleep. Then little by little increase how much they are awake when they get put in the bed. Within a week they were putting themselves to sleep with no problems. Now at 5 and 2 it's a piece of cake. I just follow their routines. With 2 kids bedtime starts at 7:30 and I'm usually downstairs by 8. I don't really care for this CIO method. It doesn't teach them to want to go to bed. They see it as a scary place when it shouldn't be. Try what I suggested, I'll almost guarentee that by this time next week this will be all over. Another thing, with the music... I like it because, when my kids wake at night all I have to do is turn their cd's back on and their right back out. My 5 yr old will even come to me some nights and tell me his music is off. It helps set the mood for sleep. It works try it.

Maybe read the Baby Wisperer. I heard it's excellent without tears.

I would try a modified version of cry it out. I did it with my kids. I only left the room for five minutes came back in laid them back down said night night, put the music back on and would leave the room again. Each time they would get angry when I left but I was trying to send the message that it was night time and they had to sleep. You can also stay there with them just keep patting their behind or rub their back but do not take them out of the crib. This way they do not feel frightened or abandoned but they know that you are not going to pick them up. I know everyone is against crying it out but I am the opposite I thought it was a gift to teach my children how to rely on themselves to self soothe. Rocking, co-sleeping, are all choices that just did not appeal to me. I was a stay at home mom and I needed my nights to myself. It may sound selfish but I gave 100% of myself the entire day and could not function without sleep. I also created a routine that I did not break. We did bath, story, I would put soft music on and off to sleep they went. It took 4 nights and it was horrible to listen to but it did work. Mine did not vomit but I do know of children who have. Maybe if you stay in the room with him during the process he will not become so upset. It really is personal choice and most people find it very difficult to do. I did, but after a year of broken sleep I was desperate for some time to myself and some much needed rest. My kids are now 24 and 20 and didn't grow up to hate me because of it. LOL!!! Good luck!!!