Why Didn't I See This Sooner?

Smile and wave. Nod. Repeat.

"Big" things like that-when there's a big difference in opinion--avoid like the plague.

Step up and tell them that religion is OFF the table as a topic for discussion. Then smile.

I can't tell you exactly what will work for you, but being a gray sheep myself, I had to be very clear of my own convictions, work to accept my folks for who they are (including the ways in which they did fail me), come to forgive them and have VERY low expectations.

When religion comes up, I don't argue (not going to 'enlighten' them into believing that my secular humanism or not raising my son in a church is 'okay'), just 'agree to disagree, moving on' and I don't justify myself any more. You can't argue with someone who refuses to argue.

Personally, I found it heartbreaking that (due to religion and other past issues) they had a hard time seeing me for me, just as a person and not someone they had to 'save' evangelically. They have, over time, come to accept that I'm doing a good job as a parent because the proof is in the pudding-- their grandson is sweet and well-behaved and lovable. (tooting own horn). I have had to realize that I will only receive from the folks what they have to offer. I try also to focus on the areas they *are* good at, like being grandparents when we do have time together. I appreciate that this is comfortable and feels good for them, that time with Kiddo.

Once I stopped trying to be 'enough' for them, and focused on being enough for myself, my husband and my family, things got a lot easier.

How would you deal with any other adult who gave you the "full court press about spirituality and raising the girls in a church"?
I tell people to pray for me if it makes them feel any better but my relationship with God is between me and Him and it's really none of their business.
If God has this omnipotence thing going for Him then He knows where I am and that I'm basically a good person.
If He's petty/insecure enough to take attendance every sabbath day and is going to be bent out of shape by my not being there, then He's not the sort of deity I'm inclined to worship in the first place.

Just be who you are and don't worry about what the folks think.
I don't talk religion, politics or money with my Mom.
Those boundaries work great for us.

My opinion from what you've said here is that you don't have good boundaries. The reason you don't is because you've always wanted their approval. It's much easier to establish boundaries when you aren't having to always try to prove yourself to someone.

By constantly trying to make them happy, you are still acting as 'the child'. Acting like an adult means doing what makes you happy, even if they don't like it.

When I wouldn't do something my mom wanted, I just told her point blank that I was sorry, but I wouldn't change for her. I loved her, but it's my life and that's the way it is. I know it bothered her for a long time. She tried to have a conversation about it every time I came over, but I just said "We've already discussed it - I don't want to beat a dead horse" and I'd pick up the phone and make a phone call or tell her I had to run an errand, or I'd say that it was time for me to go to bed. She finally realized I wasn't going to change or talk about it anymore. She leaves me alone about it now.

That's the adult relationship at work. If my mom had continued, I wouldn't have visited as much and I would have explained why. If you make you and your children more scarce and tell your parents why, it might be hard for a while, but eventually they will have to respect the fact that YOU are not their responsibility. YOU hold the cards to them seeing their grandkids.

Be strong - loving but strong.

well, good for you! you've actually figured this out pretty young. it takes some folks their whole lives (still working it out for myself.)
so now you just put it into practice, right? you move forward by doing exactly that. if they try to pressure you about church, you just smile at them with genuine joy and say 'nope. my religious beliefs are not the same as yours. the discussion is over. sure do love this peach pie!'
if they can make you feel confident that they're not going to browbeat your girls you could let them take them to church periodically, but if you feel your kids will be guilt-tripped or hellfired, don't let it happen. i made the mistake of allowing my 7 year old to accompany a friend to a local hellfire church, thinking i was being 'open-minded', and they harangued my poor little fellow mercilessly. GEEZ i was mad. at myself too. i should have known better.
really, you've found this happy confident place, just enjoy it. it will be hard sometimes- family patterns are the hardest to break. just recognize when a particular button has been pushed and you're sliding back into an old place. just realizing it's happening is usually enough to make you laugh at yourself and snap back.
khairete
S.

I think you have just done everything you need to do to move forward and have an adult relationship with them. Now that you are "free," it should be easy for you to move forward. It sounds like you have just learned how to say "no."

Whenever it's relevant and necessary, just calmly state your truth to your parents, refuse to argue, and you will probably find that it works out fine.

I'm sorry you don't Believe. I can understand where they are coming from. As a parent, you want to know that your child is saved and will meet you in Heaven. That's probably how they feel - scared that they will not be seeing you in Heaven.

What you need to realize is your parents have NEVER expected you to be perfect. That's your own misconception. They have wanted you to be SAVED.

How can you have an adult relationship with them? Like you would with anyone else. Be respectful. Listen to their concerns. Tell them your point of view/opinion. Is there a compromise? Shouldn't your children be allowed to go to church? If so - great! They can take them. Your children need to learn more than just YOUR "values".

Maybe one day you will have an experience that will change your mind about God. Maybe you won't. This doesn't have to be a fight. Ask your parents about a compromise. If they aren't willing to make that compromise, fine. tell them you were trying to find a middle ground and now that there is no compromise, let's not discuss this.

Good luck to you.

Sometimes it will be difficult to have an adult-adult relationship with them if they still take on the parent role.

In the parent-child relationship there is a tendency for blame/guilt, dictating/obedience, expectations/disappointment, and close-mindedness/unquestioning. A parent will still believe that you should have the same values and beliefs they have.

An adult-adult relationship is based on boundaries, honest, open, clear, and direct communication, each person taking 100% responsibility for their own well-being, respect, open-mindedness, curiousity, and kindness.

I have had a really similar experience with my parents. I too am really grateful to be free of the need to please, perfection, and the "not good enough." I too realized that whether I did it right, wrong, or nothing at all I would never be who my parents thought I should be.

It is okay now because I am perfectly content with who I am. I am not able to have any relationship with them now because they are not interested in an adult-adult relationship. They feel strongly about their religion and they are unable to open to the idea that I do life so differently. It is painful for them when I speak my truth, when I set boundaries, and when I choose to take care of myself. They do not understand and are not interested in agreeing to disagree. They really need me to believe the same things they do.

I am okay though. I love them for everything they have given/taught me. I have worked through all of my anger and resentment. I can now accept them for who they are and allow them to just be there. I no longer have the expectation for them to show up the way I always wanted them to. They are who they are for all of the reasons they are. I take responsibility for my own feelings and needs and I respect our differences.

You move forward by being an adult. You move forward by taking care of yourself, speaking your truth, and setting really good boundaries. There may be some grief because you may feel a loss of the relationship you would like to have had with them. Feel it. Allow it to move through. Let go of who you wanted them to be and accept what is. As long as you are clear about what is, and release attachment to what you wanted it to be, you will be able to intuitively create the relationship that will work.

You just move forward. You don't need to rehash God/religion every time you see them. And if they bring it up again you say, "Mom, I respect your opinion, but I don't have the faith you do. Please drop it." People tell me they pray for me all the time and I thank them. I say, "I can use all the positive vibes I can get!"

I've had several conversations over the years with well-meaning friends and relatives and they finally get it. We are atheists and nothing they say is going to change our minds. Just like nothing we say would change their minds. I've had friends tell me that by stating I'm an atheist I am starting a controversy. My response has always been, "Why? I'm not asking you to join my club."

I am glad that you're being true to yourself. Your girls are yours to raise however you see fit.

My sister is agnostic. My parents took issue with her for not going to church or having her kids baptized. Now that her kids are 13 & 9, I think they've given up hope. I've tried to explain to them that you can raise your kids with morals and values outside of religion. My sister and her husband are some of the most moral people I've ever known.

I think you should sit down with them and lay it all out. Tell them exactly how you feel, and that you're not going to change. The bottom line is that you're an adult and can live your life how you please.

Best wishes to you!

SOOOO great that you have realized the pattern which existed in your relationship with your parents as well as the progress you are making in developing an adult interaction with them (and view of yourself!). I actually am a religious person, however I belong to a different faith than Christianity. I understand too well how invasive it feels to encounter messages like 'people can't be saved if they don't believe ...' especially living here in an area with a strong Evangelical strand. Then, to have it coming from family is even harder.

There really are two questions here--your relationship with them regarding your faith versus your children's upbringing in a particular moral/ethical orientation. [In my book, people have ethics/morals regardless of whether they believe in any kind of spirit power. So you are raising your kids with ethics and morals, even if you are atheist.] You and your husband might choose different courses of action for each of those questions. With regards to your own belief, if it ever comes up in conversation again, you might need to tell your dear parents that you appreciate their concern for you, however you simply do not share their particular beliefs. Therefore, you aren't going to discuss it with them... and change the subject.

In terms of question two, you and your husband will need to decide together whether you want to let your parents take the kids to church, or if that simply is not comfortable for you. You then can set appropriate boundaries with your parents based on your decision together. I get that you love the 'rents, and it is important for children to grow up with grandparents when possible. I wish ours could, and I come from a family with quite a bit of dysfunction. I don't think this issue has to be a deal breaker, as long as you continue remembering with loving detachment that you are you and they are they, and their opinion of you actually does not need to affect your sense of self. Good luck with it!

You can try.

For me, it didn't go so hot and I had to come to the realization that there was no room in our relationship for my feelings and interests unless it matched theirs.

My family would rather hide behind facades then face any sort of problem and the things I was trying to do with my life and kids were so outside their square box (not really, but to them it was) that everything started falling apart. I got to a point where I couldn't pretend anymore. My feelings were being constantly bull-dozed as well as my childrens' and I couldn't stand by and let it happen anymore. When I spoke up to them about it, boy did the sxxx hit the fan. I tried to keep a relationship going between them and the kids and that is currently on very thin ice.

Yes, the signs were there most of my life but it didn't start becoming a real issue until my mid-thirties when I couldn't just function in the relationship any more. And yes, how I could never keep the perfect house was an issue too. (I will say, I did find a nice Unitarian Universalist church that made me quite happy and pacified my in-laws a bit.)

So, I just wanted to say that you're not alone and wish you the best of luck. I really wish my story had turned out a lot better than it did.

Interesting.
So you have lived your whole life up to now, in reaction to your parents.
Rebellion is reactionary. Overachieving people pleasing is reactionary.
Perfectionism (kids and house have to be perfect) was out of reaction.
I'm really not sure if they have been overbearing parents or you have been less of adult than you thought for all these years. You have an adult relationship by being an adult. You take responsibility for the choices you make and you let them do the same.

I made my choices. In my case my inlaws would never make the same kind of Christ honoring choices that my H and I have made. There were opinions expressed and a few cutting remarks. We just kept doing what we felt were the right things to do. We didn't sit around and evaluate our lives by light of theirs. We gave them space to be right and the freedom to be wrong. And enjoyed their company and endured some bad social graces.

I really doubt they cared whether you had a perfect house or perfect children. But if they did, that's not a good representation of Christianity.
I guess that means they are not perfect, so you can quit measuring yourself by them.

What I'm trying to say is, you have always had the power to go home, Dorothy. What you haven't had is the guts to live with your own choices or the freedom from fear to live life with introspection and less blame game.

What if,down the road, your children choose to live a very Christian life? What would your reaction be to something you don't understand and don't have respect for, that you fear for the repercussions. How would you have an adult relationship with them? You just would. It would have its moments of tension. But it passes. Appreciate what you have, when you have it.

Read the book The Four Agreements by don Miguel Ruiz.

It has been hard for my mother to accept that I am not raising my children in the church. Like another poster here she suggested I just let them go with someone else since "it won't hurt them", but she fails to understand that the brainwashing I feel goes on in the church on the very young is not okay and would be harmful to the way I am raising my kids. Just keep doing you and they will either accept you or they won't. My mom, whiles she does not understand my view, no longer mentions it.

Compromise and suggest that they takes the kids to church. That way the kids will have all of the information they need to decide for themselves if they want to believe or not.

ETA: I guess it depends on what kind of church they attend. Not all church's are in the "brainwashing" business. The church I attend tells stories from ancient texts, reflects on the meaning of those stories and sings songs about the stories. I have never once been told what to believe in church.

I'm so glad for you! I think that as you settle into this knowledge and incorporate it into how you live your life--and maybe apply it to all people, not just your parents--then you'll get more comfortable with it and figure out how to move forward. How you have an adult relationship with them is to continue to behave as an adult, maintaining the boundaries that your adult self sets and balancing that with compassion for who they are and how they've come to be that way.

It's really just called "growing up", and you'll evolve even more as you flow with it. Wouldn't that be something if you were to come around full circle, right back to wherever they wanted you to be, anyway? Ha ha, but you would be stronger arriving in that space on your own than having been put there by them. That's what it's about.

I know you didn't ask this question, but have you ever considered that it's not that your parents don't approve of YOU, they love you so much they want to spend eternity with you and your children? I'm sure they don't care where you worship, only that you accept the gift God offers to everyone. You can NOT earn your way into heaven leading a "deeply moral life". Apparently they know this and anyone who's studied the book of Revelation understands that the end is probably very near and all who are not written in the Lamb's book of Life will end up in the lake of sulfur being tortured for eternity. They just don't want that for you. I'm not trying to preach to you, maybe just help you to see something they haven't put into words. Maybe you can't be happy because God created a void in each of us that we're constantly trying to fill with something other than Him and it never fills unless it is HIM you let fill it!!!

Just live at face value. :) Be the true you. You're family will still love you and you'll be closer to them. They'll probably still try to "save you." But just see it for what it is... Their way of loving you. You don't have to be what your parents want you to be, to be loved and make them proud. If you need that feedback then just ask them. Are you proud of me? I sure bet they are. Though as an adult you really need to be the one giving yourself that feedback.

You've got this, hon. I told my father the one time he voiced his opinion of my not rising my child in a church that he was more than welcome to take them every sunday!
Maybe that would help. Otherwise, don't worry about it.

If your family can't accept you for who you are then that is their problem. I do not go to church or believe in god and my parents accept that. I do however have respect for their beliefs also. I will lower my head when they do the thanksgiving prayer. Raise your family the way you see best, and stop looking for their approval.