Help Me Settle This Religious/marriage Question... :)

Well she can concider herself anything she wants but the truth is that she is shaking up and living in sin.

You are right. She is wrong. The Bible does not allow for fornication, which is sex outside of marriage. It is considered sin, just as two men laying together is. She is no more justified in her sin as anyone else is in theirs.

Yep, she's picking and choosing which parts of the bible to follow to match her personal feelings about right vs. wrong and how she wants to live her life. Every religious person I know does this every day. They want the freedom to do as they will and the freedom to tell others what they should do.

I am an atheist. I do my best to live a moral life. I don't have a book full of ancient and oft-interpreted rules to live by but I know rationalization and hypocrisy when I see it.

Yes, if your friend is going to say gay marriage is wrong because the bible says so, she needs to admit that she is also living against what the bible says. Likewise, she goes against the bible every time she has sex, since she isn't married, and every time she has sex without the intention of getting pregnant, since it is supposed to be for procreation and not pleasure.

I don't believe in religion or the bible at all. I think there are aspects that can be good about it for some people, but I think there are too many people out there that are hypocritical in their interpretations and, for that reason, I dislike it.

If we believe everything in the bible, we must believe that people used to live to be 800 years old, too.

Times have changed. Beliefs and religious interpretation needs to change now, too.

For the record, I am pro gay marriage. Besides, how many heterosexual couples have gone against their marriage vows?

How convenient for her ;-) I'd be quite interested to see what Biblical passages she can cite to show that God considers unmarried monogamy to be equal with marriage. I guarantee she won't find it, but she will find condemnation of "fornicators," which would include her and her BF.

Just because, she FEELS married, does not mean that she is!
She is not married. PERIOD.

Isn't it hilarious when people make up their own rules about their beliefs with regard to their own situation?

What's the bible quote? Oh yeah, Matthew 7:5, "You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye."

And it's always interesting how people claim that "marriage" is in the eyes of God, except when it applies to others! It's OK with them if gay people "consider" themselves married, they just don't want it recognized by the state.

Does your friend know about the approx 1400 legal and economic rights that gay partners would GAIN by becoming legally married? (This might perk up your friend's ears, as she is missing out on them as well, so I question her intelligence.)

They include:

joint parenting

joint adoption

joint foster care, custody, and visitation (including non-biological parents)

status as next-of-kin for hospital visits and medical decisions where O. partner is too ill to be competent

joint insurance policies for home, auto and health

dissolution and divorce protections such as community property and child support

immigration and residency for partners from other countries

inheritance automatically in the absence of a will;

joint leases with automatic renewal rights in the event O. partner dies or leaves the house or apartment;

inheritance of jointly-owned real and personal property through the right of survivorship (which avoids the time and expense and taxes in probate);

benefits such as annuities, pension plans, Social Security, and Medicare;

spousal exemptions to property tax increases upon the death of O. partner who is a co-owner of the home;

veterans' discounts on medical care, education, and home loans; joint filing of tax returns;

joint filing of customs claims when traveling;

wrongful death benefits for a surviving partner and children;

bereavement or sick leave to care for a partner or child;

decision-making power with respect to whether a deceased partner will be cremated or not and where to bury him or her;

crime victims' recovery benefits;

loss of consortium tort benefits;

domestic violence protection orders;

judicial protections and evidentiary immunity

http://www.religioustolerance.org/mar_bene.htm/

Ah yes, the old God-doesn't-care-for-their-behavior-but-thinks-mine-is-just-grand argument. With support for the position from an arcane biblical quote.

One of my favorites.

I am a religious person and I believe in the bible. So I believe that having sex before marriage is a sin just as a man lying with another man is a sin. I do not pick and choose what parts of the bible to believe in. I believe and try to follow it accordingly. My parents are the same way. My mom was a virgin until marriage, my younger sister and her husband were virgins until their wedding night. I did have sex with my hubby before marriage but I was his first and only. Because of our beliefs we did have to repent in order to be married in our church. So I feel I payed for my sin. As far as a gay person....yes I believe it is wrong BUT I also believe in not judging others and to love them no matter what, and to let them live their lives as they see fit. I have two cousins who are gay and I love them just the same. They are wonderful good people. It is their choice to live that way and wish them all the best in their lives.

Both scenarios are 'wrong' according to the bible. And if she was religious, at all, she would know this.

Your friend's attitude is exactly why I left the church many years ago. The hypocrisy and judgement are hilarious.

She's a hypocrite, but you knew that.

Interesting perspectives . . .

Yes, the Bible says having sex before marriage is wrong (a sin). Normal sex or gay sex before marriage is wrong and against the 10 Commandments. Gay marriage is wrong. If I remember right, it was Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden.

People tend to want to justify their positions by the church they attend. If you want your day of worship to be Saturday, you gravitate toward 7th Day Adventists types of churches. If you want to call the people that go to church hypocrits, then you don't go to church and have none of the financial or social obligations of church going people.

For those that say they don't go to church because of all the hypocrits there, I ask, "What better place for hypocrits to be than in church?" Church is not a museum for sanits. Church is a hospital for sinners. If only perfect people went to church, there would be no churches.

People tend to go to the churches that allow them to live the life they want to live. When Moses came down from the mountain, he broke the first tablet because he saw his followers weren't able to live it. The second tablet he brought down contained the 10 Commandments (NOT the 10 Suggestions).

Good luck to you and yours.

Nobody can "help you settle this religious/marriage question", as you put it in your subject line. Any opinion you get is either like yours, or like hers. How does hearing anyone else's opinion help you settle the question?

It doesn't.

You're lucky that you and she together like debating. But have you ever read some of the remarks people write on the internet, people who don't know each other? You know, the ones without moderators. The ones that just draw people who have read the articles, without anyone having met online before? (Unlike MP, where a lot of us have been here for a long time and talk together on this public site.) Well, those remarks I'm talking about on those articles can just be terribly scathing on both sides of those issues. The nastiest things you can read. Making fun of people, bawling people out, stuff like that.

The point is that debating doesn't settle the question. So if you're looking for that here or anywhere else, you aren't really going to get that.

Dawn

I think that when it comes down to it that I am not anyone's judge. I have so many things wrong in my heart and spirit that I can't even begin to justify if I were to try and judge someone elses lifestyle.

In college I lived with 2 different men. At different times. They were both gay men. I enjoyed them as roommates more than any other people I have lived with.

One graduated with his degree in accounting and went straight to work at a firm for a good salary. He moved to another state and I have visited him many times. He is in a committed loving relationship with a wonderful man. They share a deep connection that many couples may never experience. I believe the were meant to be together.

The other guy is still single and very happy to be able to do his own thing as he cares for a handicapped younger brother. He is very feminine and loves girly stuff. He's truly fun to spend time with.

They are both men living in a world where they are hated by most. They suffer in their own ways. I feel so bad for them. I do not believe I would have the strength to face the world and say "Here I am, the way God made me".

I believe we all came to earth with the goal of living through trials. Trials to show us what life is all about, how we must make our own choices, some have to live with mental retardation, some have to live with serious mental health issues, some are born and leave very soon after, some are Gay or Lesbian, they have been "assigned" this trial by God, not by me, not by you. It is their burden to bear and deal with. How they choose to live or don't choose to live is not my business.

It is their life they are supposed to live. They have to stand before God and answer to him, telling him what they did with the trials he gave them.

I think if we all worked on our own selves more and tried to love others like Christ did the world would be less harsh and more supportive for all of us.

yes, an unmarried couple would be considered "sinful" or "living in sin".

soooo, that's my interpretation of The Bible. Do I embrace & follow that? Nope, I think today's world changes the rules.

just as many churches change/update their stand on many subjects, I believe the world we live in changes our following of God's Words. Peace!

if she was so divout in her religion they she would also not allow them to live together let alone have children with out being married. its premarital sex. they are not united in the eyes of god.

my husband and i do this a lot too. i was raised christian but am fine with gay marriage and things like your friends situation. he was raise catholic and those things are ok to him. i have gotten him to loosen up but would never make him change his views. besides he and i got married when i was 8 months pregnant lol.

its healthy to have discussions like this that dont get all crazy.

now what i feel is odder is that we are basically inbred if you follow the bible.
think about it theres adam and eve who started it all. then god flooded the earth except for noah his wife 2 sons and their wives. so our world was repopulated by 6 people... that explains the crazies out there right.

what i find more worrisome is this- there are 4 US states that allow gay marraige. however there are 23 states that allow you to marry your cousin! i would take gay marriage over inbreeding any day.

This is why I love the Skeptic's Annotated Bible:

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/

You can look up just about anything!

NO sin is greater than another. How she is living is no better than a gay marriage. That sounds awful doesn't it. I want to throw out that I am pro gay marriage lol! But sin wise they are the same.

There are lots of sins in the Bible that are silly to me. Like how long you are supposed to wait after giving birth to have sex. A girl is MUCH longer than a boy!

In my opinion your friends reasoning also makes NO sense!!

Biblically she is wrong. It is considered Adultry and that is against one of the 10 commandments.

Yeah, I am with your friend on the marriage issue. Married in the eyes of god doesn't require a ceremony. I even take this one step further, since god is all knowing a ceremony doesn't make you married in the eyes of god either. I am pretty sure god knew my first husband was not committed to our marriage from day one so we were never married in the eyes of god. :)

Interesting responses, you guys do know that a ceremony is the eyes of man, right?

Oh, interestingly enough if I am willing to plunk down 500 dollars and jump through some hoops the Catholic church agrees with me. :)

I corinthians 6:9. I believe it addresses both things in the same verse. Basically, it appears that they are the same. Don't take my word for it though, look it up for yourself. 1corinthians starting with chapter 5 is where I would start. Btw, I was looking in the king James version. Hope this helps.

One thing I make it a point NEVER to do is talk religion and politics on here.

In saying that...I am pro gay marriage. I have watched too many of my friends have parents who otherwise wouldn't give them the time of day "come to the rescue" when their child got sick and completely alienate the partner who's been there all this time. I also think the bible is a handbook. Contradicts itself more times than I can count and was written by flawed men who also said a woman shouldn't cut her hair or work or anything else. (blasphemy I know).

I hate religious zealots that make the rules go with what ever makes them feel better. And I was raised in the church all my life and am a student of religion.

Bottom line, he who is without sin, cast the first stone. A sin is a sin is a sin and next time she mentions it, Say HELLO POT...black...POT...black.

Also, you're not going to win this. Don't try. I'd rather keep the friendship than win an argument.

Sending good thoughts your way. ;)

I don't believe either is okay. I don't know if it is in the bible, or just more current revelation.

All situations exist on our "comfort level" we are the sole creator of our own comfort level, yes we are influenced by others of which we are comfortable with. However it is our choice, my paradigm is that the fallacy of man is:
"man tries to determine truth rather than learn" read John 8:32
free from what? misery