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Just don't forget to continue teaching them to respect one another. They don't get away with this at school, so they shouldn't at home either. The consequences have to come. Also, if you don't know "who started it", then they both get punished. Soon they will be siding for eachother.

I gave up on the "who started it" and just gave both boys the same consequences for misbehavior.
I must say as the Mom of boys that they really seem to enjoy a certain amount of bickering and horseplay with each other, and I don't get it, but they must get something out of it or they would not keep it up.
You don't say how serious the fighting is, but if no one is getting hurt sometimes I just give myself a time out and leave the room or go outside and they seem to sort themselves out just fine.
If things are out of hand the book Positive Discipline has a good model for family meetings that works well too.
Good luck!

A.,
While my two older boys are younger than yours, they are also 15 months apart. We've definitely had our struggles with getting along and there have been times I wanted to tie them to chairs and talk some sense into them. We had one weekend where my husband and I were ready to rip our hair out, they just wouldn't leave each other alone. They ended up spending almost the entire day in timeout and we were exhausted.

I stripped all of the toys out of their room. I moved them to another room of the house and I blocked it off. We started a "penny in the jar" policy. Everytime they fight or don't listen, they get a penny in the jar. At the end of the day, my husband sits down with them and together they decide what punishment they'll receive - no bike or favorite toys, etc will be taken away for a period (depends on the # of pennies). Because they had to tell my husband why each penny was earned, slowly the fighting trailed off. They either got how much they were fighting over stuff or they were tired of telling Dad. We've been using the system now 2 yrs and I love it. Also, the part of stripping the toys out of the bedroom also helped because they weren't sneaking of bed to get toys...and they fall asleep earlier.

Best of luck!

A.,

Take this for what it's worth, coming from an only child. I think those boys may need their own rooms. I don't know if that's possible at all, but that's my two cents' worth.

Hope this helps,
Melissa

My sister and I had terrible rivalry so I was determined to work so that would not happen with my children. As soon as I found out I was pregnant with my second (and then again with my third) I told the children ALL THE TIME what a great big sister, brother they were. How blessed they were to be best friends. How God gave them each other to be best buddies. I take every opportunity to emphasis this and so far it has worked. I have a 7, 5 and 5 month old and they are all kind and loving to each other (most of the time :) I am hoping it will stay that way.

Hi A.!

Wow, it must be a challenge for all of you to have so much tension in your home and within your family! I'm so sorry that you are all going through this, and my heart really goes out to you and those beautiful boys!

The first thing I would do is let go of the notion that punishment is going to help the situation. Sure, the fighting might subside for awhile so that the boys don't have to give up something that they really want to do, but that isn't really getting to the heart of the matter, nor is it teaching them how to communicate with each other or consider each other's feelings.

First, I would ask myself, what kind of modelling do Dh and I do? When we have conflict, how is it resolved? Do *we* bicker? Does one person *win*? Do we work through things together, and come up with solutions that are consentual?

I notice that the more Dh and I model open communication, consideration for each other's feelings, and consentual conflict resolution, with the kids *and* with each other, the more I notice the kids following suit.

Next, I'm sure you have talked with each of your sons about their behavior and inquired about what is going on with them, and you said you don't buy it that they are 'just acting like boys.' Have you asked them *how* they are feeling, rather *why* they are behaving that way? Have you asked them *what* they each feel they need? Have you just listened without judgement, with no threats of punishment, no advice? Have you been able to show them empathy for what they are going through, and validated their feelings as being *okay*?

Sometimes just being heard and knowing that their feelings are okay, and that you are there to help, not to punish, can make a world of difference.

After you have thought this through, and perhaps done these things, then I would try sitting down with your whole family (including your little girl), and do the following:

1.)Have each boy state, beginning with 'I' (no 'you' statements...it sounds too much like blaming...starting with 'I' holds the person who is having the feeling accountable for his own feelings), how he feels (instead of "when *you* do 'x' it *makes* me so mad!", have them try "I feel mad when I am trying to play 'x' and there isn't enough space" - a very vague example, but I don't really know your boys enough to get more specific)

2.)Have each boy start with 'I', and state what he needs (i.e. "I need my own room") during this phase, you are listening only, not judging the what they feel they need

3.)Practice empathy ("I'm sorry you are going through this", "wow, that must be really hard to deal with"), validation (maybe if you or Dh have siblings, you could tell them about some of the times when *you* had a hard time with your siblings...let them know it happens, that it is okay to have their feelings, and to express them), and reflective listening ("What I hear you saying is....")

5.)State, using 'I' messages, how you and the rest of the family are feeling about their actions...again, try not to fall into the trap of blaming! Simply state how you feel when you witness their actions towards each other, without accusing or judging. Then let them know that the family is suffering, and you'd like to work together to help them get what they need, so that you can all be together in harmony, not suffering.

4.)Have the whole family start brainstorming ideas on how to help each of the boys meet their needs...Be creative! No idea is a bad idea. Be sure just to jot down the ideas, even if it sounds totally impossible or unreasonable or irrational! Don't fall into judging the ideas...don't even comment on them, even if one of the ideas is to send one of them to some far away place, or to get their own house or something like that. Yell them out, and write them down, even the ones that sound ridiculous! Oh, and have fun while you do this!

5.)Go through the list, and try to figure out which ideas will:
a)will meet each of the boys needs, where they are at, right now, in this moment
b)will be possible
c)will also meet the needs of the family as a whole, and feel good to everyone.

The trick is to find solutions that cover all three of those steps.

***Yes! This is a lot of work and it takes time...but the more you are open to really listening without judgement, empathy and validation, *AND* are open to *all* of the possible solutions (and trust me, there are many, and you might be surprised by the creativity and depth of the solutions your children bring to the table...even your 5-year-old), the easier it gets. And a bonus is, the more you can do this in *all* your relationships, the more you will see your children doing it as well.***

I don't remember who recommended it, but I would second the motion of each boy having his own room...even if it is a small room. If that is not possible, then perhaps there is a place in the house where each of them can have a space that is just for them to 'get away'. I would also consider, if having separate bedrooms is not an option, if one of them could sleep somewhere else...or at least be able to when he is just feeling he needs to get away. Like I said, there are always so many options, we just have to be open and creative, and willing to think and act 'outside the box', without worrying what other people think or would do.

Finally, for more ideas, I would check out the following websites:

www.cnvc.org (Center for Non-violent Communication)

www.thework.com (The Work of Byron Katie)

www.byronkatie.com/children_parenting/ (The Children & Parenting section on Byron Katie's blog)

www.consensual-living.com (Consensual Living Homepage)

***I strongly recommend checking into 'The Work' - when one is really open to trying it, it can be an amazing tool to explore where our thoughts and feelings come from, and how to effectively communicate and turn things around. I think it would be great for your family...and even your boys could do it!

Best wishes!

I hate to disagree but they are just being boys. I am the mother of two boys 11 months apart. They are 10 and 11. They started fighting around the ages of 8 and 9. It started with me needing the ice pack for my head but as they get older I need it for one of them or both. They can be the best of friends one minute and fighting the next. As quick as it turned into a fight they are back being friends. I have found boys disagree, fight, and get over it. Boys solve disagreements all together different than girls. Always remember they may fight each other but they will always be there to back each other too. Good Luck!!

Hi A.,

I will highly reccommend the book One, Two, Three Magic by Thomas W. Phelan, PH.D. It is effective discipline for children 2-12.
I read it ALL about 4 years ago and I still use the tactics on a daily basis today. My daughter is 12 and my son is 8. It stops them dead in their tracks without you EVER having to yell...imagine that!!
But both you and your hubbie have to read it and follow thru for it to work. It is so easy, you will cry...:)

S.

I heard of this happening and a desperate mother actually tied a rope from one to the other and told them that they had to do EVERYTHING together (stand outside the bathroom door while the other was in there, etc)... This MADE them figure out how to get along and by and by they were laughing and enjoying time together!

i have 2 daughters that are 15 months apart, and believe me, your boys will make it through child hood. my daughters didnt become friends until in their twenties. a lot of patience and a lot of equal love and attention, and, doing things together with them together will help. always rememebr not to tell either why cant you be more like your brother in this area, or compare them, that adds to the fighting and dismay. im sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but my dear, its a stressful situation, but, will be a lot of laughs when they are older. rememebr, children are a gift from God, and when you look at them in frustration, take a second look and tell yourself what wonderful gifts you have recieved. as for the fighting, boys may be boys, but, grounding, with no tv, no gameboys, nintendo or whatever machines they have, no outside, may make you miserable, but, also may make them miserable enough to behave for a few days at a time. the salvation army loved me when my girls were young.

After writing my response I read Angela's. I very much agree with what she said and I've found at least one of those sites helful for me. If I'd read it before writing mine I probably wouldn't have written mine. I'm leaving it because it does have some different thoughts that may be helpful to you. I'll add that even tho I've been trained in non-confrontational communication I've had a difficult time always using it. Sometimes the words just slip out and are often just the words I've heard for most of my life. My feelings may be different but I've not been able to translate that into effective words. Most of us have to operate by rote because of our busy lives. However, I will also tell you that with my improvement in my communication skills, my adult daughter has also improved and we're gettting along great after many years of both of us feeling and acting out in anger. It's worth the struggle to learn new ways and to be able to teach them to our children not only in words but most importantly in our actions. Sending kids to there rooms in an angry voice is punishment instead of discipline which respects the child and teaches him how to better behave next time.

As you so aptly said, they are struggling to be their own people. They are fighting to find the boundaries betweeen themselves and the other. Fighting is normal and you can't entirely stop it but you can reduce the amount.

Teach them other ways to work out their differences. Teach them other ways to work off their anger. Give them a chance to practice what they are learning. Perhaps when you hear the fight start remind them to try xy and z.

My granddaughter's school has a printed sheet with graduated ways to work out differences. As a teacher or playground volunteer, (I'm the latter) we are told to first suggest one of the techniques. There are books available that will give you ideas for methods that the boys can use to resolve the issue without fighting.

There was a lot of verbal fighting when I was growing up. Both adults and children were fighting. Children even sometimes fought with parents. As an adult I've had a difficult time teaching my children to respect me because I didn't have a role model. I could expect and receive respect in my professional life but had difficulty with it at home. Look and see what you might or might not be teaching your children. Perhaps the adults don't fight but they sacrifice to have "peace." Children in that situation often then do the fighting to relieve their stress over the not fighting.

One effective way my parents did deal with sibling rivalry was to separate the two of us. We could not be back together again until we had calmed down. My mother would often talk with each of us separately and help us determine what caused the fight.

My daughter separates the children. They cannot come out of their rooms until they apologize to the other. This does sometimes lead to insincere apologies. She will not accept the apology if it sounds insincere or snotty but as adults we know it wasn't as sincere as we'd like it to be even when we accept it. Yet, somehow it works most of the time. And it helps the children learn when to apologize instead of fight and even how to apologize. I've known several children and adults who literally did not know what an apolgize meant or how to do it even if tjey still think that they're right. Apolgies are for the hurt feelings as well as our own inability to resolve this issue without fighting. An apology doesn't have to mean that you're admitting that you're wrong about whatever started the fight. It is a way to treat yourself and the other with respect. It helps us get past the anger and to the issue at hand if that's what is needed.

I would add to my daughter's method. I'd talk with each child separately, after they've calmed down but before the apology to calmly help them learn from the incident. No lecture! Mostly questions addressed to steer them into understanding why they were fighting and how they can stop fighting. Of course you can't do that all of the time. But every once in awhile. They will most likely never stop fighting. Some siblings reach acceptance of each other as they mature but if they're not allowed to work out being their own individual the fights usually go on for years and years.

Hi, I am responding to this after you wrote your "how it went" because I didn't see the original request. I just wanted to add that I have read hundreds of parenting books, and by far the best for me were the Adele Faber and Elaine Mazlish books, "Siblings Without Rivalry", "How to Talk So Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk", and "Liberated Parents, Liberated Children". The first one is obviously the most appropriate for this case.

Anyway, a major technique in their sibling rivalry book is how to encourage them to solve their own problems between each other, and without the parent getting involved (extreme cases excepted, of course). All of Faber & Mazlish's books are 'can't put me down' books -- and because of all the personal examples it's almost like reading a gossip column. :-) I just wanted to add my two cents because I have really found their books to be phenomenal. I hope this also helps!

I really like the penny/marble in the jar idea, but I have one suggestion to add to it. Maybe if someone see one of the boys or anyone else doing something good for someone else in the house, they can take a bad marble out and put it in the good marble jar or something like that. You don't want to always focus on the negitive things that they do. Try to encourage the positive behaviors too. While it is a good thing for them to recognize that what they are doing is hurting someone else, they also need to be taught how to react in a good way and they need to have their positive behaviors rewarded so that they will be more positive with eachother. I will have to remember this trick when mine get a little older.

sybling rivalry is always going to happen my younger sister and I are 2 1/2 years apart and we used to fight all the time which drove my mom crazy how ever she would let us work out our diffrences amoungst ourselves sometimes she would punish us when if we did harm to eachother but other than that it was up to us. I know this more than likely was not the best but it worked out and eventhough my sister and I are not the closest we do get along fairly well. Also haveing to share a room is hard when you're close in age. I did that for 8 months with my sister when we lived with my grandparents we shared a bed, a closet, a bathroom and I was 13 and my sister was 11 let me tell you that was the longest 8 months of our lives!

My favorite parenting author, John Rosemond, www.rosemond.com, has said not to worry about things being "fair", if that is ever a problem with your boys (in their opinion). Disciplining both when there is a problem encourages them to work it out with eachother (important life skill) rather than bringing the problem to you with "he started it..." If they complain that it's not fair, then they get to learn that life isn't fair (another life skill/knowledge). Good luck!