I need some advice about how to handle this situation with my mom. It's a long story. My parents got divorced in 2000, and my mom fell apart. She had never lived on her own because she got married and had kids very young. With me and my 2 brothers, she moved us all halfway across the country closer to family. We struggled for years, I sacrificed much of my high school time to work and help support our family, and my mom, always awful with money, got a full time job in accounting with decent benefits. During my high school years, she filed for bankruptcy twice and we moved 5 times.
Fast forward to 2007. My brothers moved in with my dad a few states away, and I graduated from college and moved out. My mom decided to get her bachelors degree while she worked her accounting job. I was very supportive of her doing so, even though she wasn't sure what she wanted to do. She thought counseling, teaching, seminary, of the sort.
Jump to 2012. She got her bachelors, yay! Graduated with it in Religion. She didn't have a plan for what she wanted, but was just glad to have a degree. She went back to focusing on her job for a bit but she suddenly decided to quit, move to a different state, and go to a small grad school for a master's in thanatology (study of death/dying). She had no savings, no cushion. She sold off most of her belongings and just went there. No job set up or anything. She enrolled, found a part time job as a student secretary and a cheap apartment in someone's basement 20 miles from of school. Her schooling is 100% student loans.
She graduated in May 2014, and her student job ended since she was not a student anymore. She hadn't worked on a resume, and believed that her degree made her a grief counselor (she has no certification or license). With no job in sight, she applied at the FBI thinking she'd get a call any day. Then she applied to some jobs that are far above her skills (magistrate judge, therapist, paralegal, the like), and job after job turned her down.
As of today, she has been unemployed for a year. She is in her early 50s, has no insurance and will not get any. Her resume is awful and poorly written. She has had 2 initial interviews and no offers. She was on unemployment for 6 months, then cashed out her 401k and has been spending it up. She only has a little bit left. Her landlord has been letting her live rent free until she can find a job.
I don't know what to do to help her. We offered to help with her resume, help with cover letters, people skills, etc. but no. We offered to let her live with us and pitch in and watch our toddler (and baby 2 coming soon) until she gets on her feet. Nope, instead she cashed out her retirement. I've sent her relevant job postings, tried to explain what job options she has, suggested websites, resources, temp agencies, but she's "above that stuff." Her old accounting job even came open and she wouldn't try for it, because she "doesn't want to feel like she's going backward." She's told me she believes a master's means more money, and automatically believes she should start out making double what she used to. She refuses to try any other jobs other than ones that have a lot of recognition or are supervisory, even though she has no experience. A couple of months ago I suggested that maybe she's depressed and should see a counselor, and it's about time to look for something, ANY job that she can get to support herself. She truly believes she's done everything she can and took offense and has not talked to me since. My brother told me a couple weeks ago she says she feels abandoned and just spent $400 on new clothes. She is going nowhere fast.
Thank you for reading all of this. Where do we begin? Can I even help? I worry about her and want what's best for her, but she's doing this to herself with one bad decision after another.
Thank you all so much for taking the time to write. You have given me a lot of things to think about. Marda, you are totally right that I believe we are going to need to help her after she's hit rock bottom, which would be stressful for all of us. It's so hard not to say "I told you so, this could have been totally prevented." She's very good at playing the victim in situations like this.
I probably went overboard offering help over the last year. I started out being much more supportive, cheerleader like, but it's turned into more of the Debbie downer type mentality. But despite my own hardships, I've worked hard and done really well for myself and was just trying to pass it along, you know? I want her to support herself and be mom, be grandma to our kids, and have a good life.
I love my mom, but it has been nice not thinking about her situation all the time. She's capable, but unwilling and stubborn, and it's been a pattern for a very long time. It's so hard to watch her fail over and over, when she swears she's doing everything she can. It's a cycle. She wants sympathy and someone to tell her that the world is being unfair to her. I don't tell her that because I don't believe that's the case. Her sense of entitlement blocks her from opportunity.
My husband and I have discussed this at length, and I posted here to gain more insight and perspective. I appreciate everything that has been said.
everything i thought i'd suggest as i started reading got axed as i continued on. she really is resolutely shutting herself off from all reasonable prospects, isn't she? and i think you've really gone above and beyond by offering to let her live with you.
i don't know what to suggest. i guess she has to bottom all the way out. it must be very hard to watch.
:( khairete
S.
I'I suggest that there is nothing you can do. With years of counseling and working on boundaries, I finally "got it." She has made her boundaries very clear. When you are insisting on helping her you are violating her boundaries. No wonder she was angry.
This was a hard lesson for me. My daughter got pregnant at 18. She had no money or education. I gave her money and babysat my granddaughter. I tried giving her advice on ways to get ahead. She was angry much of the time and I felt unappreciated. She did and still does need my help I finally learned to not give advice or offer anything unless she asks me for help.
By being so involved in her life I realized I was trying to get her to live and think like me. Not fair! She felt dIminished and not in control of her life. Finally we are mostly at peace with each other. She is living a life much different than my life and what I wanted for her. I do "loan" her money but don't expect to be paid back. She does pay me a substantial amount from time to time. I accept it graciously.
You are in a similar situation in reverse. Can you imagine how she is feeling? She has given you reasons for not accepting help from you and sibs. I suggest she had to stop talking with you because you do not accept her no. You keep wanting to help, just as I did. The best way you can help her is to stop helping. Just stop, cold turkey. She is an adult and has the right to make her own decisions even when they are not reasonable.
Read some of the posts here written by children who are having great difficulty with intrusive adult children. once we're adults and parents are still functioning, even tho not meeting our very reasonable standards, we have to accept that they don't want our help.
I wonder if you're concerned that once her money is gone you will have to help her. No! Each of us have to face the consequences of our decisions/actions.
I'm sorry you missed a lot.of high school. I can see that you might expect that you will miss much of your own life to once again help her. I suspect that when she runs out of money she will expect you to help her. However, you do not need to help her more than you're able to and maintain your life as you planned. She will have government resources which are meager. She chose to spend her money. The problem is hers.
I urge you to read about codependency. That is when one's life is so intertwined with another's life that they are unable to keep their own life and emotions separate from the others.
I say it again. Until your mother asks for your help you have no responsibility to save her from herself. When she runs out of money it continues to not be your responsibility. I make exception for elderly and sick parents. Your mother is functioning. What happens to her is her responsibility.
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I'm sorry for you and your family. How do you help? You don't. Unfortunately, she is a grown woman and she is going to do what she wants to do. Accept her "NO".
She doesn't feel supported by you because you are "Debbie downer" in her way of thinking. I actually agree with you but she doesn't and there isn't a thing in the world you can do to change her mind, so stop trying.
Is this a train wreck? Oh yeah, but its her train wreck and she is going to have to figure it out.
"You can lead a camel to the water but you can't force it to drink". You can tell your mom everything you have and it won't make one iota of a difference because she doesn't believe it and won't. So stop.
I would call her and apologize for not being supportive. I would tell her that you are so darn worried about her but that you know she is a grown woman who can make her own choices and you are going to respect that. However, when this blows up on her, and it will, I would say when she asks for money or anything "Mom, I respected your choices. I might not have agreed with them but I did respect them. I'm sorry you are having such a hard time but we are unable to help at this time. This would put us in a disadvantage and I can't do that to my family."
Good luck!!!
My mom was like this. I had a conversation with her that I was worried about her and if she got in a bind financially, we would not be able to help. She basically said it was none of my business. So I said, ok, I won't worry about it then, and I haven't. Your mom has her life to live and is old enough to know the outcome of her decisions. So I would have ONE conversation with her expressing your concern and then I would let it go. Good luck.
I'm so sorry for your situation. Your mother sounds like she is not based in reality, and that she can just talk herself into feeling she's qualified because she has some letters after her name. But she's just as unprepared for "real life" as she was in her 20s - she just has more classes under her belt.
If she won't go to the career counseling department at the school where she got her degree, if she won't do an internship (unpaid) to get experience, or if she won't volunteer or get a mentor in her chosen field, she's sunk.
She's blaming others - she blames employers for not agreeing with her assessment of her own worth and experience, and she stopped talking to you but says she feels abandoned by others. She's operating under some delusions here.
Honestly - she doesn't want to accept what you are saying. She may have to hit rock bottom and go on public assistance. I don't know. But she has not listened to anyone in 20 years, so why do you think she would listen to you now? You can't always fix people. You've summed it up in your last sentence - she's doing this to herself. If she's a danger to herself, you can have her involuntarily committed, but she's not in that situation. Some families engage in an intervention with a trained professional - but she's free to throw you all out of the house if you can't claim that she is incompetent to make her own decisions or that she is so mentally ill that she cannot function. I'm sorry but I don't think there's a solution that's within your power to execute.
No. You can't help.
When she gets hungry, she'll find a job.
Some people have to learn the hard way. Some people have to learn humility. I'm so sorry to think from what you've detailed here that your mother is one of them.
I think you just have to pull away until she opens her eyes, pulls out your emails, and listens to your advice. You can lead a horse to water but cannot make it drink...
None of this is your problem, unless you make it your problem. Can you imagine if you channeled all this energy towards yourself, your husband and your children?
You don't "owe" your mom because she had you young, or had a rough life, or anything else. I hope that guilt trip is not running through your head.
Please read up on boundaries, and co-dependence.
It sounds like she has been battling the 'set up to fail' syndrome.
It seems like this has been a life long pattern for her.
She fails to take responsibility for her mistakes so that she can keep making them.
It keeps family members in 'rescue mode' so that the person won’t be abandon. It also passively controls family members by keeping them involved in her life to keep rescuing her.
How does one work in accounting and not apply those concepts to their lifestyle?
Sadly, I think you need to step away and let her figure this out on her own. It is the only way.
Marda is right, reading up on some codepency would be beneficial to you.
ETA: If you like to read try The Glass Castle by Jeannette Walls. The book opens with the author eating lunch at a nice restaurant looking out the window to see her mother (by choice) dumpster diving for food. It is her true story of codependency, and she is a great writer.
You have tried to help her, and she has refused your reasonable offers of help, such as fixing her resume or offering advice.
You cannot help her, and do not feel obligated to do so. She is making her own bed, and you should not have to bear the consequences of her poor choices. Don't let her suck you under by feeling like you need to support her or give her money. Helping her beyond what you have is called "enabling."
I'm older than your mother, and I went back to school as well, and I would never burden my daughter or feel that I was "above" certain jobs, if I needed them. I would also not spend $400 I couldn't afford on clothes.
Sorry, but your mother pisses me off. She is not your responsibility. Offer her your wise advice, but beyond that, let go.
I suggest therapy for you, to help you understand your role, and how to interact with your mom without enabling her.
Also, have you read the book The Glass Castle? It is a book that you might identify with, in some ways. Her story is more extreme than yours, but it is written by a woman coming to terms with her parents who made, in her opinion, unwise decisions and had to live with consequences.
Your mom has to help herself.
She's an adult and she's making her choices.
Sometimes you can see a train wreck coming from a long way off but there's nothing you can do to prevent it.
She's not your responsibility and what ever happens to her is not your fault.
Please don't take this the wrong way because I really feel bad for the position you are in. Your mom sounds like the crazy (insert insult of choice) that works here. She has an online accounting degree from an unaccredited college but thinks she is right up there with the rest of us. She was told to find another job, guess she is lucky she wasn't fired, and has been looking for a year!! She isn't qualified for anything she looks at, heck some of them I am not even qualified for! Lord
Anyway my point is her daughter graduates in a few weeks. She is joining the army, hoping to be stationed in another country, to get away from her mom. No one faults her for that, it really is the healthiest thing to do.
It isn't an issue of enabling their behavior it is an issue of save yourself because you cannot save her! I am using an exclamation point because you need to accept that. You cannot save her because she does not see she needs saving, she thinks she is fine.
I hope you at least listen to my post. My mom went to her grave never seeing anything she did as wrong. It was easier for me because it wasn't like her insanity would cause her to be homeless, she had my dad. Still although I am over it I can still remember that pain when I kept trying and trying and not only did she ignore it, she actually made me feel like I make her life worse. I was in my 30s before I accepted I need to pull back and save myself.
Save yourself!
Someone below suggested a job counselor -- if she would agree to see one (you'll surely have to locate one and probably go to where she is and take her and sit through the session as well so she doesn't walk out saying, "The counselor says I should be a supervisor, so there!"), that might help; however, it sounds as if she might have more than just some unrealistic expectations happening here. Please think hard, and talk with your brother too, to consider if she has over the years also shown any signs of depression and/or "mania" -- "high" periods where she is on top of the world and can do anything (even unrealistic things) and brooks no argument about it.
Though the lengthy time that she's been applying for the wrong jobs probably means it isn't mania, the whole thing of believing she is entitled to a much better job, pay scale, can do things she isn't qualified to do (like being a grief counselor) sound like behaviors of a friend of mine when she was in manic states. Utter belief that she was worth a bundle more than she was, that her training made her perfect for things it did not, and so on. And financial choices that were sudden and very poor, such as cleaning out accounts and spending it freely.....But these states didn't last for months or years on end and it sounds as if your mom's issues have--? That probably indicates it's not mania, but I still think there may be a mental health issue there of some type.
This may be as simple as a woman who felt so deprived and overworked for many years that she now believes she's owed a better deal, especially as she earned a degree. She HAS worked very hard, no denying that. But the unrealistic nature of her expectations would just have me sitting down and considering whether there are other signs of mental issues.
That won't help you help her, of course. Others here are right that as she is an adult, you cannot sweep in and force help on her. Hearing from a professional third party like a job counselor or "resume doctor" that she is being very unrealistic could work better than hearing it from you -- you are her child, and she will see you as such, whereas a professional might get through to her a little more. Please update us. How sad for her, and for y ou.
I would back off from trying to help her. When you are with her talk about things other than jobs and money like your kids or food etc. you can't help people that don't want the help no matter what you do. She will just have to learn as she goes.
How to help your mom - I think in this case, your mom has to help herself. It's so hard when people don't. A job counsellor and I think therapy (it sounds like there may be some mental health issues there) - are what would help your mom.
You've suggested this and she's not willing to help herself.
I'm afraid there's not much you can do.
Sometimes people are resistant to get help because they don't want to face reality - that there wasn't a point to their earlier decisions, or they made bad choices ..
Until we can be honest with the past though, we keep on making the same mistakes.
Maybe she feels terrible about the choices she made as a mother and is just in this almost delusional state about moving forward - trying to justify it all. Who knows. That's why I think a counsellor would help.
If she won't go though - you just have to stop talking about this with her.
My MIL has mental health issues and won't get help. After years of feeling sucked into it, I finally realized she's not going to change, but I don't have to be a part of this. I had control of me - to say enough. So I limit it. I am not involved. I have a very limited relationship with her now, but it's far more healthy (and far less stressful) for me.
Good luck :) It sounds like a very difficult situation. Hopefully if you back out, maybe some day your mom will come to you and ask for your help - by all means then you could help find her some.
I think Marda's answer is bang on. I would follow her suggestions.
Sadly, you can't help her. Only be there to support her if she asks for it. She's acting like a teenager. It never goes well telling a teenager what to do. The same goes for your mom. Marda P very eloquently explained why your approach will not continue to work. It is hard to let go and let her do what she thinks is best, but you have to let her fall/fail if she is so hard headed she can't see the forest thru the trees. Good luck.
I ahve a number of people around me with mental health issues - and all signs point to that with your mom. Unrealistic, unable to take control of her life, reliance on others, feelings of abandonement, etc.
Bottom line is that the roles have become reversed awafully early in life! She's become the child and she's only in her 50s! I'm almost 56 and I can't imagine the upheaval she's been putting herself through! She definintly need mental health counseling and probably medicaiton - but I doubt she will see that on her own. Can you imagine anyone wanting to be counseled by a person whose own life has spiraled out of control?
You should get yourself a few counseling sessions to learn how to respond to her. Even two sessions with a good counselor can make a huge difference in your understanding of her and how best to deal with her. Face the possibility that she may not get better. She may - if she gets the proper help. But if she continues to wallow her life away she will just gets more and more introspective and less productive.
Suggest that she volunteers - volunteering is a great way to meet people who may connect her to a job and she can practice her "skills". A soup kitchen, food pantry, a hospital, a local mission, etc. Many home health agencies have positions for people to work as home assistants - they do laundry, prepare meals, keep the homebound person company. It's could be a life saver for your mom - she can use her counseling skills. it's not a lot of money but it may be enough to draw her out of her funk. You can explain how a big pause in employent is going to be a problem for anyone wanting to hire her and an future employer is going to look at any work or even volunteer work as more valuable than nothing.
Ultimately - there's nothing you can do to make another person help themselves. If that were true a lot of welfare recipients would be off welfare. I know a young lady who just finished her graduate degree more than a year ago and is still working at the local grocery store while she works part time in her profession. It's a foot in the door.
If nothing changes, however, help her file for welfare benefits. Maybe that will wake her up.
So sorry mama.
You suggest job or career counseling and/or regular counseling to figure out what is going on. It sounds like she's holding herself back and doing things a 20 something would do out of college. And if she married young and didn't really do the typical 20 something things, maybe that's why. If she feels abandoned and fills it with things, then that is more than a mother-daughter talk can fix. I'm sorry you are going through this, but remember that you can't always fix people. At least, not til they want to be fixed.
She's had a breakdown and until she's able to sit down and work through this she is sort of ....letting life be on the back burner.
I believe in Love and Logic. She will run out of money and people that will let her use them before too long. I think she might want to check herself in to a state hospital for mental health reasons.
BUT if she has always been this loopy headed then she just has that personality and won't amount to much.
IF she was, at one time, able to manage things like this and now isn't then that's a results of her breakdown.
She should be able to figure out how to get a license in her degree by talking to her grad counselor or her department head. It's not that hard and most colleges have head hunters and programs on how to do everything you're doing for her. She might listen to them, they are more of an authority figure to her.
you cant help someone who refuses to help themselves. if you take her in, she has a handy excuse to not get a decent job, even if it means having to "lower herself", by taking an old job..an old job, is better then no job..but she hasnt learned that yet, and she isnt going to because she has people around who she can depend to help her..standing out in the rain, wishing on rainbows wont make you rich, it will, however, get you soaked.stop returning her phone calls, give her chance to put on her big girl pants and help herself..you are not the parent, she is. K. h.
Career center for her. Maybe Google how to love someone w Borderline Personality Disorder. I could be wrong, but check it out.
