My son's dad died after a long battle with cancer when he was 13. He is now 17. For several years, his 3 uncles and cousin have been going on a ski trip every winter. His cousin is 1 year older than him. My son wondered why he was excluded. He doesn't know how to ski. This year he was asked to go about a month ago, but the uncle said he needed to practice skiing. My son is a junior in high school taking full time college courses at the local college with a 4.0 grade. He is manager of hockey team, on student senate, on national honor society, and volunteers at church and local food shelf. Not much free time, but he has scheduled a weekend to try skiing. My brother (his uncle) has called at least 5 times (after my son was invited) to see if my son knows what he is getting into and to see if he has practiced. I have told my brother that my son is very busy, but he doesn't buy that. Now he says another non family member and good skiier has been invited. I get the feeling that my son is being excluded and have asked my son if he really wants to go and he says yes --that he has been waiting to be invited by the 'guys' for a long time. I really am getting the feeling that they think my son will hold them back from their fun and don't want to take the time to help him along. What should I do if anything?
I will add that right after my husband died, and my son was 13, he was rejected by friends that he had hung with since gradeschool. Bad experience. He has moved on now and had a girl friend and some other friends, but I think that whole experience really stung him deeply - I KNOW it did because we got counseling. Just about killed me seeing him go through the added pain. If I wasn't clear, my son's dad was my husband and I probably AM overprotective due to the hurt we both went through losing him to cancer. My son is my only child. I am now enlightened about the difficulty of skiing. I can give better advice to my son. Also, I hope he goes because it is SO VERY IMPORTANT to a boy without a dad to have those male bonding experiences. I realize that and I dont' know if his uncles (my brothers) get it. Thanks for input and I have a clearer picture now.
I would talk to the uncles, about how they have excluded him for so long, and if they need to give him a little extra help to make him feel included in the family they need to shut up and do it with a smile on their faces! If it were my son I would have asked a long time ago why he was being excluded from this yearly family event. I would also point out that if they had not excluded him for the past 5 years he would know how to ski by now.
I think the skiing and trip will be great as long as you know the equipment. Helmet and appropriate ski gear. He will be on the green slopes while others I have no doubt will be on the black slopes with moguls. The happy medium are the blue slopes. Let him go with the understanding lessons are a must and that black slopes will be at the end of trip. Not the beginning! good luck.
It's not a question of exclusion. It's a question of ability.
Skiing and snowboarding are ... intense... activites with MANY levels. A new skiier or snowboarder typically spends a couple of years on the green (easiest) and blue (slighty harder) runs if they're only skiing weekends. They spend all of their time on the easy runs. An advanced skiier or snowboarder spends most of their time on black diamond and double black diamond runs. ((Think of it like swimming... new swimmers don't start off by doing 5mi ocean swims, they start off in the shallow end learning how to swim. Or running. A new runner isn't asked to go on a marathon weekend with family UNLESS they've been running enough to be able to handle a marathon. Ditto reading... you -I'm fairly sure- don't enjoy spending all day reading See Jack Run type books... but may very well enjoy reading novels. It's all about ability levels. And the fact that gaining skill in ANYTHING requires a lot of practice.))
If you take a new skiier out with you, you are either "stuck" on the easy runs the entire time... or the new skiier is left all on their own the whole time. A new skiier CANNOT do the harder runs, or it puts their life at risk. Taking a newbie with you means that you are giving up ALL of your time/plans to be with them while you learn. It means staying in the shallow end, or jogging a mile instead of 10 or 20, or reading See Jack run, instead of Shakespeare. ALL have their place, but if a group of people are going out to do *anything* at a high level, teaching someone the basics means that they won't actually be able to do what they came to do.)
HOWEVER... some people, with enough dedication (or time) can progress to black diamond runs in one season. You have to practice a LOT. You not only have to learn HOW, but you also have to get your muscles in shape (a green run takes an experienced skiier about 30 seconds to go from top to bottom... but 20 minutes for a new skier. A double black run often takes 20 minutes for an experienced skier... but over an hour for someone new to black diamonds, and is *impossible* for a new skier).
Your son's uncles I think are trying to be very straight forward and welcoming. They KNOW that even practicing every day there's no way he could progress to their skill level, but are offering to still take him IF he's practiced and has gotten capable. Your son, however, like you said HASN'T practiced (regardless of the reasons). Asking them to give up their vacation to teach him to ski... you can see, I'm sure, why that's not rejecting him. They're doing something that requires a high level of skill, and your son doesn't have the skill yet.
Well, they do have a point if this is their feeling, because a non-skier or first-time skier cannot hit the same slopes or keep up with experienced skiers and will be spending most of his time on his own (trust me -my in-laws and husband are champion skiers and I am not, nor do I want to be -I spend my time snowshoeing and cross country skiing and shopping -but I'm alone or with my SILs partner if she's there. He needs to understand that about the skiing -he'll be hanging with them at night. However, the best way around this is for him to concentrate on taking some lessons during this trip so then he can try it out and get better. At his age it won't take long before he's ready to ski with them -especially living in a snowy area like you do.
Yes, your son is being excluded because he doesn't know how to ski. Seems reasonable to me. I wouldn't take it personally. If I were your son, I wouldn't want to be the one who slows everyone else down and interfere with others' fun. He won't fit in because he doesn't know how to ski. That doesn't mean he's not wanted. It sounds like your brother is being reasonable in trying to arrange for a way for him to go.
I suggest that you ask your brother to help him with skiing early on next year before the ski trip is scheduled. You've told him that your son is too busy to learn. Now tell him, your son will make time to learn.
I think that you're asking your brother to "carry" your son which at this late date is unreasonable. All of us have to make ourselves available for learning so that we can be included in activities. I suggest that your brother really wants your son involved but feels helpless in making that happen.
By the way. He doesn't need a father to learn to ski. I wonder if this situation is feeding into your own sense of helplessness. I suggest that, if going on the ski trip is important to your son, not you, but your son, that you provide him with lessons ahead of time.
Your son sounds exceptional! You've done a good job with him. Going skiing may not be so important to him. Perhaps being involved in the family group is what is important and that can be provided in other ways at other times.
I honestly can't believe so many responders missed the real question here.
Your problem isn't that your son needs to learn to ski.
Your problem is that your brother and your sons other uncles let your son down when he needed them the most.
It wasn't just the year your husband died, as if maybe they thought he just needed some time to grieve. It was every year since then. Pretty much since he was the age to be able to participate.
Your brother may have left your son out the first year because he was uncomfortable with it so close to your husband's death but to exclude him for the next 4 years as well?
It sounds to me like your brother's wife nagged him enough that he finally invited your son and he keeps calling, hoping that your son will think it's going to be too hard and back out. Maybe he's afraid he'll have to spend the whole time with your son, teaching him and taking care of him.
Does he realize your son is 17?
I'm guessing that they're not going to the mountains to do some extreme skiing. That they'll be at a resort or something that offers lessons and has bunny hills and beginner trails.
I'm not sure what your brother thinks your son would be "getting into" other than learning to ski and having to spend the first days on the beginner trails...isn't that what you're supposed to do when you first learn to ski? Others have mentioned that he would indeed be skiing alone anyway so he wouldn't be holding them back.
Tell your brother that you didn't say anything about him excluding your son for the last 5 years because you didn't want to create a problem in the family... he is your brother after all. You are speaking up now because his constant negative attitude about this trip is unacceptable.
Remind him that if he didn't want your son to go along then he shouldn't have invited him. Now that he has, he needs back off and realize that your son is 17 and is more than capable of learning to ski without a babysitter
It sounds to me like your brother has some issues of his own to work out, what with still acting like a child well into adulthood.
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I don't want to hurt your feelings but you seem a little over protective. Your son is 17 and not a baby. Getting out with the guys and maybe having to rough it a bit will build some character and maybe teach him something that he doesnt even know about his self just yet. It probably would be a good idea to talk to your brother about what is actually going to go on there and make sure your son is prepared for some grown man teasing. It seems you are very fearful of your son going on this trip. Is your son going because he truly wants to go or is he going to prove to you he isnt a sissy boy or is he going because he wants to try to ski and hangout with his uncle and cousin? Dont analyze it to bits and ruin it. Your son is old enough to join the army soon, I'm sure he can survive a ski trip with family that loves him and want to toughen him up a bit.
i think you need to sit down and have an adult talk with your brother.
I don't think it is exclusion. Is just a bunch of men (uncles) try to protect male pride (your son). They want him to come but they do not want him to feel bad about not being a good skier. It is a guy thing. What they may not know is that your son; being a modern male, is totally cool with not being a pro-skier and that for him, the trip what is important.
He should definitely go. Mostly because he says he wants to but also because trying new things doesn't have to be scary AND because you can't ski 24/7...There will be plenty of time just to hang out with the guys. Besides, most slopes have programs for beginners -- No one has to baby-sit him. Not to mention the fact that skiing ain't exactly a team sport. So...All of them will more or less be skiing solo.
Well, he is actually being included; he has been asked on the trip.
It is possible his uncle is trying to keep him from feeling excluded by encouraging your son to practice skiing before the trip so that he might be able to participate with the rest of them more fully.
It must have been hard to wait so many years to be asked. If your son's enthusiasm is about the skiing then he might have a good time with just lessons followed by hanging out with the guys. If he is more into the male bonding part, he just needs to be himself and he will find a way to connect.
Well, I kind of get where they are coming from, but if he really wants to join in the fun every year, he needs to get out there! Skiing is an expensive sport. If I were you, though, the absolute best thing he could do is go on the trip and schedule a couple of skiing lessons from a certified instructor while he is there. That way, they don't have to feel bad about "leaving him behind" and he can gain some good basic skills. If he can, he should also try to get a lesson while he is on his own the weekend he is trying it out. Skiing can be dangerous if you don't know what you are doing. He can't expect to get out on the runs they will probably be on for this first trip at all. If they are good skiers that would be extremely dangerous for him. Is there another family member who has never been skiing before that could join him? He shouldn't feel snubbed...I'm sure it is solely because of his lack of experience and their being afraid he will be left behind (as he should...on the beginner slopes and bunny hill to start). Next year he will be ready for a little more advanced skiing. If he likes it, he should try to get out there with friends again before the next trip!
They should include him and sign him up for lessons the first day. Talk to his uncles about doing this and tell them he wants to go and is feeling excluded. I bet he'll pick it up really fast. His uncles/cousin can suck it up and do some easy green runs with your son in between their harder runs. It's all fun.
I think the others have pretty much nailed it on the head about the actual ski issue. They probably are excluding him b/c they don't want to "have to" train him and hang on the bunny slopes with him, but they are probably not realizing how much it hurts him. Since this is your brother I think a call and heart to heart is in order. He will probably also welcome the chance to explain how he's really feeling too. This is a hard issue b/c as his mom I would agree with how you're feeling, but in a way, I can see the Uncles' concerns too. I hope it works out and he has a fabulous time!
OK...I'm really annoyed by this and I'm not his Mom. One would think that after what your son has been thru losing his Dad your brother would have stepped up to be a "surrogate Dad" to your son. Frankly, I'm ticked that they have excluded him thus far. Would it have killed him to take your son on weekend ski trips to teach him to ski? Shame on him. You have obviously done a fine job in raising such a responsible young man so I'm not trying to diminish your role as Mom & Dad to your son. It just really frosts my cookies that your brother couldn't see beyond his own fun to include your son. How would he feel if the shoe was on the other foot and God forbid it was his son's without a father and they were the ones being excluded. I think at this point the best thing you can do is to ensure that your son gets in a few weekend trips with ski instructors prior to the trip. You may want to politely remind your brother to lighten up since this is the 1st time they've bothered to invite your son they need to cut him some slack for the learning curve.
It will be good for your son, he's 17, almost a man. He isnt 7.
Your son sounds like a great kid who really has his act together. Don't try to protect him so much. I think he's doing just fine. If he has timeto practice skiing, then let him practice. If he doesn't have time, he will just have to go without any practice. Your son wants to go, let him go.
He will probably be by himself on the hills a lot. That's the reality of newbies skiing with experienced skiiers. All my kids have had the experience of being a rookie skier/snowboarder, left by themselves on a bunny slope, and they survived it.
And tell your son the reason they "excluded" him is because experienced skiers don't really enjoy skiing with rookies, it limits them and it's not that fun for them; it's nothing personal.
I think for a healthy 17 year old, a morning of lessons out on the slopes should take him a long way. Your son shouldn't expect to be with the guys constantly on the slopes, but that seems like normal skiing to me. I'd go with my family at age 12 or 13 or wouldn't see them much of the day until we met up to eat and relax. Maybe they can have a meeting spot every couple hours or so. I'd talk to your brother about how much this would mean to your son to go.
I didn't read ALL of the responses... but Riley makes a LOT of sense. Is there any way that you could talk to one of the uncles and see if they would consider taking just your son for a weekend to help him learn... and then maybe he could plan on being part of the "guy trip" next season?
Already having rejection issues, you don't want to make it worse by having his cousin resent him for making him miss out on his big ski weekend stuck on the "baby" slopes. Is your brother that callous that he wouldn't consider maybe taking your son by himself to help him learn/train/practice... sort of a pinch-hitter for dad?
OR, have you discussed with your son how he would feel if he skied alone with on the "easy" slopes while everyone else is elsewhere... and then just spending the "non-skiing" time with the guys? What would your brother say if you and your son explain that you HAVE DISCUSSED that whole aspect and that he is fully aware of his limitations and is OK with them going on without him to the more difficult slopes. That he just wants to be included in the fraternizing and bonding off the slopes. Well, maybe if they go down ONE bunny slope with him, so they can tease him about it later and they will have something to razz him about... lol.
Your brother is likely interested in seeing his nephew move on and grow into a man, you know, man up. Someone has to be at the bottom of the totem pole and this time it is him. After this, when it his turn to invite the guys out, he can invite them for some hokey or ice skating. Let go, he will grow. I am sure he is in a much better place than 3-4 years ago when his Father died and I am sure it is an improvement for him. As well, I am sure as his Father looks down on him, he wants to see him enjoy, laugh, and have fun.
P.S. You might be overprotective. It is understandable, but let him go.
I've skied for almost 40 years and besides the obvious issues your brothers have, and how sad I feel for you and your son b/c THEY never maned up and did the right thing by your son, I would strongly suggest that you wait until next year for your son to go... and have him start taking lessons now, and as soon as the first snow falls next year... up until the trip.
It's hard when someone doesn't know how to ski and it is really boring to have to stay with them on the easy slopes, selfish I know, but you don't want to set your child up to be the outcast and the person everyone is rolling their eyes at.
Re: having him ski w/ a lesson group that would be great - but a full day lesson is very expensive and a big part of the 'day' is meeting up at lunch/ end of day and talking about all the runs and what went right/wrong... so there is a very strong possibility that he would feel very left out w/everyone sharing and him not being personally involved in any of it.
Now if your brother's had a sensitivity gene I'd be writing the opposite! But your brothers have shown you that they are not going to make an effort to make him feel included and I think it would be very lonely for your son.
If he has lessons for a month or two and goes next year (and takes lessons say in the AM) and then had the ability to ski with the guys after lunch, they could ski hard in the AM and may feel better about not skiing so hard in the afternoon so that he could ski with them.
From my 40 yrs of experience w/ski outings I believe this would allow your son to be set up with the greatest chance of having a great time and feeling like 'one of the guys'. Good luck!!
You need to talk to this uncle. Be diplomatic, but be clear. If his father was still alive, would your son have been invited all along? Why has he been excluded? So he doesn't know how to ski, big deal. That is what lessons are for.
This uncle should want to invite your son, because he loves him and enjoys his company, and should arrange for your son to get lessons on this ski trip. I'm sorry about this -- this whole thing makes me mad.
Ok, Since they have invited him, I think it is really really important for him to at least try out skiing before he goes for this weekend away. I get that he is busy and one time isn't going to get him good enough to be skiiing the hard slopes with the experience skiiers, but i think he needs to have a base of knowledge before he goes. by not having a little practice trip, it sort of feels like to me that he isn't taking the big trip seriously enough. Does he really really want to go skiing or is it just being left out?
I"m confused about what your brother has to do with it too and why he "isn't buying it" so maybe i'm reading your question wrong. like others have said 'some family just doesn't end up being worth it."
good luck to you and your son what ever happens
Man am I annoyed with your brother . . . how could he be like this to a young man who has been through so much? Wouldn't it be wonderful if he would step up and take your son under his wing? That's what a real man would do.
That being said, if your son wants to go I'd probably let him go. I would chat with him about uncle and say "look, we know Uncle is not the most sensitive knife in the drawer so let's don't set our expectations too high."
Your son sounds like a really great kid. Honestly I'd steer him away from people like that in the future, even if they are family.
