MIL Is Seriously Certifiable

Why would you have sent the baby over there again?? I have told my husband, his mother, and my mother that if my daughter's hair is cut without me, they wont be allowed alone with her again, and that was mostly kidding, since I know they wouldnt do it, knowing my feelings. I think you need to lay down the law, she's not allowed to see the baby, with or without you until she can quit being such a nutbar! but definately NO unsupervised visits!! I dont even know what to say to such a horrible act by a MIL!

i think its time you sit down and set boundaries with her. that is ridiculous!!! If my MIL EVER cut my daughters hair without my approval i would have a few choice words for her. I cant imagine what you must be going through with her, my daughters grandparents are never around so i dont have to deal with this kind of mess.

Hey Christine, you have every right to be upset, and for me I would have address that. My mom watched my kids once when they were in elementry school, my kids were getting awards but 2 of them were home sick but I wanted to be there for the other one so my mom came to sit with them, I started walking up to the school then realized I forgot my camera so i went back and my house reeked with cigarett smoke, I was livid. I went back to the school came home, never said a word to my mom but never asked or let her watch my kids again. J.

Oh sweetie, I so feel your pain. My m-i-l did the same thing to me with my oldest daughter. It wasn't just any haircut either - it was her FIRST haircut!!! It was incredibly funny that the woman understood the significance of the event enough to save a lock of hair in an envelope, but didn't feel the need to check with me first. Unless you want to invite more stress and boundary violations upon yourself, DO NOT let this woman watch your child unsupervised. You will continue to kick yourself over and over. I have a 14 year old daughter and a 7 month old and I have already decided there will be no babysitting with my youngest one due to all the violations she committed with my oldest one. The haircut was just the tip of the iceberg. Many many many more things followed!!! My m-i-l has all boys (which I've heard can cause a BAD dynamic with d-i-l's) and has always acted like she is the queen of the kingdom and we are all her subjects who should be so lucky to live under her rule. She also wants to be involved in EVERY aspect of her sons' lives. She has ZERO boundaries. Her most recent act of terror was walking in on me half-naked and breastfeeding after I had gone into my own bedroom in my own house and shut the door. I would never enter someone's bedroom after they have gone in and shut the door. Black and white symbol to me that says - PRIVACY PLEASE. She acted like it was no big deal. This was the nail in the coffin for me - realizing that nothing has changed with her. We had a big confrontation a few years ago, and naively, I thought things would improve. WRONG!!! Sorry for my own personal vent. Wish you and I could meet for lunch! :)

Oh dear. I think I would take my baby and move across the country.

Failing that, I think I would line up at least a half dozen reliable, trustworthy sitters, so there's always one of them available. I would organize my family life so that there is *always* something planned (whether there is or not). This is to give only a five-minute space for Grandma to say hello to Baby, and then there is always someplace else to go! "Sorry - have to go now - love you!"

If she ever, ever gets to the point at which she can ask, sincerely, why she feels left out of her grandbaby's life, perhaps that will be the point at which your husband - or even you - can explain to her gently that though she may want to have fun being a grandma, she's doing it the wrong way. Absolutely the wrong way.

That may never happen. Or she might get all huffy or angry and you will end the conversation right there (because you have something else to do). OR (gasp!)... maybe she might begin to wonder, then, what the right way is.

I hope it's a comfort for you to know that you're not the only person with dysfunctional kinfolk! Don't turn into one yourself because of this difficulty. Put two pictures in your baby book: "Janie's first haircut given surreptitiously by Grandma," and "Janie's first REAL haircut!" Make the second picture bigger than the first.

I think you have more than enough reason to never have an unsupervised visit with your MIL again. You just can't trust her. The 'message' she is sending is loud and clear - she can and will do anything she wants with nary a by your leave. So it is up to you to make sure she never has the opportunity.

I'm going to put a different take on it. What if you ask her where she had the baby's hair cut and tell her not to do it again. No why's in there, just a statement.
And of course you are spitting mad. I would be too. That is out of line.

Strike 3 - she's out.

Someone needs to talk to her on the level that she is acting - be super firm, to the point of emotionless. "due to your past behavior and your total lack of respect for us as parents, you will no longer have unsupervised visits with your grand-daughter. If you attempt to tell us how to parent our child, or do anything opposed to our parenting style, you will never see her again and no amount of ignoring your son will change that - period!"

Control freaks of that degree need to be put in their place or they will continue just like an un-disciplined tantrumy child will continue with their bad behavior. She needs firm, consistent discipline;)

If anyone, let alone a MIL cut my childs hair while I wasn't around, my child would never see that person again. She crossed the line. I would have your husband contact his mother and thank her for the free haircut and inform her that she will no longer have visits with the baby.

I would be ripping mad also. Good thing hair grows back!!

Did you ask her if she cut the baby's hair? If she did, that was WAY out of line. (But let it go - hair grows.)

I didn't see your previous posts, but you need to learn to set boundaries NOW! Or you will truly learn to abhor this woman, if you don't already.

The next time she does something you don't like, tell her sternly that she may not do that anymore. If she argues, repeat the statement. When she knows you're serious, she'll stop.

Hi Christine,
I have not read all of the responses but I know the cultural differences were mentioned. I honestly believe that's what's going on. I'm not an expert on the subject, but when I googled "grandparents role in Hispanic culture" to learn more, it became apparent that it is extremely different than western culture. I truly believe you are misunderstanding each other and the language barrier plays a role as well. I completely understand your feelings and I would be just as angry and hurt, but when you take a step back and explore the motivations behind her actions, you can begin to realize it's really not personal. That's the biggest mistake humans make, myself included, is taking things personally. It's natural to react that way so I'm seriously not criticizing you. Your MIL is taking your actions just as personal which creates the tension in the air. The hardest thing for me to learn in my life (I'm 41 now) was that people act as they see the world based on their own experiences. As humans, we often make assumptions about others' behavior but if you really dissect it and get to the bottom of the reasoning behind it, you'll discover a world of information. It's cliche, but understanding where each party is coming from (she needs to do this too) is the key to making a better respectful relationship.

I'm not saying it's easy and in fact your MIL will probably be more stubborn about it not only because of the culture but because of the generation. The other key to accomplishing this is to get your husband on board since he will be the one talking to her. It's like being a diplomat - the best way to get what you want from someone is to understand them and let them know you understand. For example, saying to your MIL something like "I was thinking about then tension between us and I know I was angry about the clothes, shoes, and hair, but after analyzing the situation, I came to the conclusion that I misunderstood your motives. I know your intentions were not to hurt us, and it's very important to you to be involved in the upbringing of the grandchildren." Giving her this "understanding" alone will make a difference - I'm guessing she'll cry in delight. It's not giving in to her and you still need to set the boundaries for what is best for you and your husband and your children (that is your priority). I'm not suggesting to be OK or accept anything she wants. Like any opposing team, you have to find a way to make it work somewhere in the middle. You'll find that if you take the initiative to do this, most reasonable people will follow. Once they feel understood, they will be more willing to compromise.

After giving the understanding, you then need to clearly set the boundaries and explain what, why, where, when... For example tell her directly that you don't want the baby's hair cut again anytime soon, but when the time comes, you promise to include her in the event - if you don't want her to be the one to cut, maybe she can come with you to the salon and take photos. Make her feel important. You don't have to do this with every event - some need to just be private for mom and dad. It should be a healthy balance. As for the clothes/shoes, maybe there could be a handful of clothes that stay at "Grandma's" or "Abuela's" (not sure what they call her) that she can buy for when the child visits. If it makes her feel important, why not. But I do agree that she should not take or hide or get rid of any clothes/shoes you buy. Tell her that's the compromise. If she does not respect your boundaries, obviously this new method will not work.

My philosophy on child rearing is to not only let children know what is right and wrong, but to give them the tools they need to handle anger, disappointment, etc. e.g. In addition to teaching that hitting is not an appropriate way to communicate to someone when you are mad, give the child suggestions on how to express their anger like punching a pillow, then talking about it. This confirms their feelings are real but teaches them the outlet. I hold the same philosophy on dealing with opposition between adults - each party wants to feel understood. It's hard, I know. My life is not perfect and I definitely have MIL issues, though different kinds. I just want to share some insight in case it helps to make the situation a little easier.

As a last resort, if none of that works, just remember as someone else mentioned, ultimately you cannot control how someone behaves, but you can control how you react, and reacting negatively only hurts yourself and actually feeds into the behavior of the opposition; don't engage it. Once you've tried to understand her and compromise, if she won't budge, then you just have to clearly set the boundaries, not let her be with the children alone, and back off as much as possible. At the same time, don't waste your time being upset, talking about it over and over, feeling attacked, etc. Just be comforted in your decision to draw the line and live your life and don't worry (your husband mostly) what she thinks or feels about it otherwise the guilt trips will get to you. Know in your heart that you really tried to work with her and it's her loss, oh well (this is accepting it at face value). But hopefully it won't get to that. I sincerely hope this helps. Hang in there and I wish you all the best. p.s. by "understanding" someone I don't mean you have to agree with them! K.

Ditto SA Mamma H.

GET a babysitter. NOT your MIL.
Bypass, your MIL for any babysitting duties.
Or use your Mom.

Your MIL will NOT change nor change her tune.
Bottom line.

I would be pissed, if anyone cut my kids hair... and not telling me nor getting my permission.

NOW, what is your Husband doing about it?

I would be pretty pissed if someone cut my daughter's hair too!

I would skin my MIL alive if she did that. Sorry, not very helpful....

Christine, I wouldn't think of not just listening and giving you a shoulder and a much needed safe place to voice your feelings about someone stepping all over you and your families wellbeing. I am truely sorry for the pain this has caused you but I would say I am glad that you haven't had the chance to talk as yet. I believe that can serve you and your family in giving you a much needed chance to reflect not only on your shock and horror but on your solid convictions of some things you need to establish in order to make the healthies relationship possible. Think about how to distance if your wishes once voiced calmly and cooly can be adhered to while it will put the responsability on that person about what they choose to do with this relationship. I hope you understand what I am saying here. :) Wish you all the best from this and any other difficulty you face.
D.

How did your husband react to this? How is HE dealing with her? He needs to tell her in no uncertain terms that she has violated your trust. Write down her offences and tell her that she is in grave danger of not being a grandmother. write down the rules, communicate in whatever way possible what is and what is not tolerable. And still don't leave her alone with baby. She's not the only grandma to do this, but she's not the only grandma to lose priveledges, either. Good grief. And Good luck. :)

Oh man Christine, I'm so sorry! I don't have time to read through all the other posts but I have to tell you that this woman is going to do what SHE wants to do, regardless of your feelings. She's not going to understand boundaries and even if she did, if she doesn't agree w/them she won't care. I seem to recall that you mentioned in your other posts that she's Latin? I am Latina and BELIEVE ME Latin Mothers, Grandmothers and Aunts are going to feel as if they have a say so in your kids lives. It is infuriating and has caused many a flare up in my own family. I'm sure there are some other Latina women out there who will swear that isn't always the case and to them I say "you're lucky and a rarity".
If there is any way you can avoid having her watch your daughter for extended periods of time I would try to make that happen. Maybe she would finally break down and ask why she's not getting to see her as much or at the very least she'll ask through your FIL. Then you can try to have your Hub talk to her about it in front of all of you or if that is too uncomfortable between the three of them. I mean ultimatley you guys can only try to approach her in a calm and respectful manner and if she freaks out that's on her. Any reasonable person can see that she's being really disrespectful and discurteous to you guys and your parenting desires. Hang in there Mama!!

Don't ever let her be alone with your baby again. There is something mentally wrong with her.

i would be livid.
and would not allow her to be alone with baby after that.
gah!
khairete
S.

Its def. time for you to sit down with her! I would wait till your a little calmer and if your having this many problems with her take your husband or your sister with you. This is so if things dont go well she cant twist your words and make you look bad. I really do feel for you! I will not even be in the same area as mine. But I really do agree she has no reason cutting any child hair with out the permission of a parent, grandchild or not!! Good luck!

Are you sure she cut your child's hair? It sounds like you are somewhat ambivalent as to whether this happened or not as you say its "not really noticeable". Consequently you definitely need to know for a fact if she did or she didn't -- and the best way is to simply ask her point blank (unless you think she's capable of replying with a bold-faced lie). If she admits to it, then you lay down the law about boundaries, and make other choices as far as leaving her alone with your child.

Now if she denies it -- its possible that she's either lying-- or she actuallly didn't do it. Perhaps she simply gave the baby a bath and the hair curled differently this time. Or, she used a conditioner and it changed the texture making it feel "thinner and not as full" .

My point is -- you could be (dare I say) overreacting and focusing on something that didn't actually occur You have plenty of reason to be mad at her -- but without this haircut session being verified -- it's really just speculation.

.

Hello, How awful. I am a grandma and I am telling you; Do not leave this baby alone with her! What next? Will she color your daughter's hair? She clearly does not understand boundaries. I had the most wonderful "mother-in-law" in the world, but I also have a mother who was very much like your mother-in-law. I stopped allowing her to be around my children all together. She was verbally and physically abusive to other children and started to treat one of mine that way. Zip, gone.
Good luck with your precious little girl.
K. K.

If your MIL cut your babies hair without your asking her to do so, that is SOOO not cool. What's next? My reaction to this would not be any better than yours, worse in fact. I'd've probably have to confront her immediately. Really, you gotta find a new babysitter. MIL gets supervised, short visits, something WRONG with cutting someone else's babies' hair without it having been discussed first, or without her even mentioning it to you afterwards. I would worry what she's gonna pull next!

I havent' read the other posts in a while. Is your husband on your side? Or is he oblivious?
From now on just dont' let her have the baby. Hire a babysitter, get her into a daycare and do not put MIL on the acceptable persons list.
You can state as politely as you can.... I"m sorry, I am _____'s mother and will take care of this. Be blunt.

Yes, she is trying to send a message, yes, she sounds a bit "off" and what she is doing is passive-aggresive. You are correct in that you should not leave the baby alone with her. No need to explain it to her, as she hasn't listened in the past and will only deny anything she's done. She's fairly harmless, so far. I would personally not take any chances and her visits with her grandchild will have to be made at your convenience. Sorry you're having to deal with this. I have a neighbor who is called "Nana" by our kids. She is a God-send in so many ways because we don't have family. But I feel she is also P-A with some things and seriously think she does things on purpose. I try not to let them bother me, but BOY there are times I just scream! Hang in there. I can't say it will get better, but just know that others feel your pain.

It's definitely odd behavior. I know I would never touch my grandkids hair without first talking to Mommy. You might just let her know that you noticed and say something like "I see you did a little trim job, I've been meaning to do it myself... did she sit still while you were doing it?" This way she wont think you are mad about it and she will confess up that it was done, and that opens the door for you to say "I would appreciate you asking my permission before you play beauty parlor with her in the future.."
No harm done, and your point is made.

Honestly, I would be f*ng pissed also. My son used to have brown beautiful curly hair like shirley temple and my MIL would always comment on it and ask when we were going to cut it. I would always reply, oh, when I feel that its nexessary. I knew she wanted to cut it, but at least she never did. As pushy and crazy as she can be, she didn't. I think she knew that it would be a big deal if she cut it. Maybe let your MIL know that its important to you that you would be there for all your kid's haircuts because you want those memories before they grow up too fast. I usually say things like that when my mil gets like that. I try to be as nice as possible. :) good luck

Dear Christine,

I know you are very upset and want to vent and hope that getting this off your chest has helped you with this.

Although this is a very frustrating situation for you, there is a rather straightforward solution to keep it from happening over and over as it has been lately.

She won't willingly respect the boundaries you've tried to set. She has proven that repeatedly. She is not going to change. So, now you have to structure the environment so that she cannot violate those boundaries. That means no more unsupervised visits with this grandma. You're not keeping her from seeing her grandchild by any means. She can see her granddaughter at your home, or when you go as a family for a visit to her home. If she acts up during supervised visits, you can decide that visiting time is over. Try to remain as neutral as possible to avoid adding "fuel" to the fire. Just calmly say goodbye, and you can try again another time.

However, it just has to be no more letting her babysit for any reason, even if she "insists."

You said it wasn't an option today, but for the future, you have to find other back up alternatives for babysitting. That actually means two or three back up options because we all know babysitters get sick, have sick kids, have other things come up, and you don't want to be in the position of having her be your only option.

If you want to solve this problem, you have to eliminate her opportunities to violate your boundaries. The only way to seriously do this is to have supervised visits only.

Anything less is simply inviting more of the same.

Best of luck to you and your family.

J. F.

If she did in fact cut your daughters hair, I totally think it was a power move to exert her grandma authority! Ugh.
I have a great MIL, but we tease her about boundaries all the time because she is bad. Nothing like this though, just things like wanting to take over the parent role by providing for my child at events where her parents are completely present and have it all under control (eg, packs her a lunch when we all go to an amusement park all day... when it's like duh, of course we packed her a lunch ourselves!) Anyway, apparently my MIL knows someone whose mother-in-law pierced their baby's ears when the mom wasn't looking at a family get together, when she had previously been told not to, saying "it's our culture"... yikes. My MIL loves to bring that one up all the time as proof that she is not as bad as some other MIL's out there!
Aww well, what can you do. I didn't read your other posts so I can't comment on how exactly out of line your MIL is... but this is very irksome. At least it's a good story for the years to come.

Oh my gosh! That is SO wrong! What is she thinking?!

She sounds a lot like my MIL. Oh! The stories I could tell you from the last 18 years!

My MIL is also VERY sensitive and VERY self-involved. So, she thinks EVERYTHING that occurs has something to do with her or is a slam against her. Forget to tell her something? You did it on purpose. Silly stuff like that. And she lies. More than any one I know. When my FIL died, it was ALL about her and how would she get on and blah blah blah. No one else in the family even got a chance to grieve. She had no sympathy for my husband and his brother who lost their father or the grandchildren that lost their grandfather. The first Father's Day after, we were camping and didn't come back 'til late because my husband just wanted some alone time. After all, it was his father that had passed just 2 months before. She was livid we didn't spend the day with her and we were so thoughtless. Really? He was her husband, not her father. She expects me to host every family event and then wants to dictate when and what we eat. She constantly complains about my SIL and her SIL to me like she wants a wedge between us. She never invites us over, and then complains that we don't make time for her.

And I KNOW she fed the kids foods she shouldn't when she had them. And then if you questioned her, would get all upset and say "I can't believe you think I would do anything to harm them...." She made endless promises to the kids she didn't keep. And, she was passive aggressive. If the kids had a day off from school and I asked her to babysit, she was always too busy. so I quit asking. And then she'd tell the kids after, oh, I wished I'd known you had the day off, you could of come to my house! Seriously?!

I've never withheld the kids from her. But, they figure it out on their own and make their own choices. That's the payback. She said the most cruel things to my daughter when she was 16 that my daughter isn't too interested in having much of a relationship with her. Besides the fact that at 18 she's figured out she's a crazy lady. My son hardly wants anything to do with her - I practically have to beg him - because she hardly gave him any attention, it all went to the "granddaughters". There are four more grandchildren 10 and under. So she focuses on them, but the day will come I'm sure when they won't bother either.

I know none of this is advice. But if it makes you feel any better to know you're not alone, perhaps it will help.

Good luck and God bless!

i would be livid if my mil cut my daughters hair! my own husband isnt even allowed to make that desision lol. i would stop unsupervised visits. im glad you see the need to sit with her now. thats just waaaaaaaaay over the line. i do have to say that when i was little my own grandmother (moms mom) cut our long hair while we were visiting her out of state into pie cuts!!!! when we flew home my mom walked right by us because she was looking for her girls with long hair... and lets just say they had some words on the way home...

I know the feeling. My OWN mom cut my sons hair about 2 years ago. I WAS LIVID!!!! After I regained my composure (5 days later) I told her that what she did was disrespectful to me as a parent. NOTHING could give her the right to cut my childs hair. I told her that if she ever did anything like that again it would be the last time she EVER would have my son without me being present. it has now been 2 yrs with no further incidents. I know that she meant well but I still remind her from time to time when she makes a remark about something she would do differently, that he is MY child, not hers and how would she feel if her mother or MIL did that to me without asking her. I am so sorry that you are going thru this with your MIL. If respect is something that your MIL demands or wants, use that to help her grasp that what she has done is wrong and disrespects you and her son as parents. I hope that you can figure this out. problems with the in laws are always a pain.

Oh, my. I know what that feels like! I have some relatives with absolutely no sense of appropriate boundaries. If they think they're right, that's all that matters to them. They have no sense that other people's opinions are just as important as their own, ESPECIALLY if they don't agree with those opinions. It's just so aggravating. Even if you've told them something 1,00 times, they feel totally justified in ignoring you and doing the opposite, because in their minds, you're wrong. I once had to nearly threaten violence to keep a relative from giving my 8 month old daughter beer (we don't drink at all, which she finds "extreme," and she kept insisting to me, "All babies love beer! It won't hurt her!") I have one relative who was extremely vocal about the fact that (with all 4 of my kids) she was positive that they were going to be "crippled" because I didn't "MAKE them walk" as early as tshe thought they should be walking. (They were textbook average in when they started to walk, BTW.)

Sometimes friends can overstep their boundaries, as well. My mother has very small feet (size 5, as compared to my size 9) and all my kids have her feet. Especially in elementary school, their feet look tiny compared to their peers, and I often find myself thinking that the other kids seem to be wearing huge clown shoes. I've never mentioned it, but other parents mention it to me frequently, sometimes assuming that I'm ignorant or broke and cramming my kids into shoes that don't fit. Once, when my 7 year old had on a pair we'd just bought 2 days earlier, she played at a friend's house and came home saying that the dad had told her to "go home and tell your mom to get you some new shoes before those ones start to hurt." AAARRRGGGHHH!

There's not much you can do about these people except smile and ignore them, especially if they want to be the center of attention. And, realize that you're not alone!

Based on just this post I would say yes, that is unacceptable. I went ballistic when my NANNY cut my son's hair- very poorly I might add. I told her in no uncertain terms should she ever do that again. But this haircut thing in addition to the history (I just read your other posts to get the background) is bad. It's just really unfortunate because everyone is losing. She has totally missed the boat on who's in charge of the child. I am so sorry for you that you are having to deal with this. I don't think you should let this go- she needs to know every time what she's done wrong. I can't help but feel in this instance like she's actually trying to be spiteful, which is also not okay. In any event- please continue to keep us posted and remember- you're not crazy, this does, in fact, suck! :)

Oh Christine! I feel your pain! My MIL also cut my daughter's hair. My MIL is always pushing boundaries and at that time she was in a phase of trying to act like the mom and not the grandma. She cut my daughter's hair when she was 4 months old! Just one instance in a LOOOOONG line of offenses.

All I can say is keep up the good work and be consistent with EVERY situation. Don't let anything slide!

Good luck!

It's a control thing....passive agressive, for certain. Don't let your daughter be the pawn in this game. Hang in there and have a conversation, like an adult. Explain the issue and be calm. Just do not allow her to be around your daughter. Hire someone....anyone....nad if need be, hire them to "help" our your MIL. Do not allow her to be alone with your little baby. I would hate for the inasnity to escalate.

You've received tons of reponses already, but I just had to respond because it's so nice to hear that I'm not the only one with a crazy MIL. Kidding. I would never want anyone to experience an awful MIL, but know that you are not alone. Yes, she definitely crossed the boundaries and I think you should call her out on it OR tell you husband he must! All the best and remember that you are the only one that YOU can count on to protect your baby, so don't ever feel you are overbearing or otherwise because we all parent differently and who is to judge if your baby is being raised right.

That's so wrong on her part! I've been following your posts and I feel for you. It'd be appropriate and great if your husband could speak with her, but at this point I think I'd be upset enough where if I were you I'd say something if he didn't. It doesn't have to be confrontational where you get in a fight, but you need to remind her that your the mom and please don't cross the line as a grandmother. I hope it works out for you. I also have a MIL who in the beginning I felt crossed the lines or made little comments. Although we don't live near her, I made sure I voiced my opinion to my husband and he better step up to make sure she knew we were the parents and it worked. Things are fine now, but I'd like to think its because something was said from the start and I make sure she knows we're the ones in charge. Good luck!

Wow she really is sending you a message!! Like I said before don't go to her for anything. Let her come around if she really loves her granddaughter. If she really cut her hair she will do many more things with out your permission. So find a babysitter to take care of your daughter, CDR has a list of sitters they recommend that are in their system. I am sure you could find one that is close to you. My MIL wanted to take our daughter to get her ears pierced, my husband and I both agreed not until she wanted to get them. She even bought earrings so she would have to take her, but we put our foot down and told her absolutely no way was she to do that. Luckily she doesn't she our daughter that often, or even offer to sit so we are not worried for her to do it behind our backs. But you should stay away so you don't have to worry about your daughter. Tell your husband to call his mother once in awhile just so she doesn't get too out of control and blame you for not letting her son talk to her. Don't depend on her for nothing we've learned if you ask for favors and depend on them for something they expect something back and can do as they please with your kids.