Obsessive/Compulsive/controlling 3 1/2 Year Old (Warning, Long Post)

It sounds like the same thing I'm going through at home with my 3.5 year old daughter as well. I attribute it to she's a girl! My son never did this! If you find anything good out let me know.

Hello,
I have a 3 year old that is the same way. Things are to be a certain way and if not she starts to pout and what not. When she was a little less than a year old she started to pull her hair out. I went to the doctor for it and he told me she had OCD, he told us to distract her with something else so help her stop. She has since gotten a small stuffed pony with hair and she pulls that hair now instead. We have bought ever pony from ever story with in 50 miles of my home and have a storage of them in my closest so when one goes bald we can get another one. But if you recieve any good advice it would be great if you could pass it along. I could use the help also.

A. (working mother of 2)

have you thought about the possibility that she actually has OCD? my son has OCD, and it can be very frustrating for the child as well as the parents. i would suggest you consult a professional, just to find out. it seems that it goes a bit beyond just being willful and stubborn.

Just stop catering to her needs. Take away the sippee cup and the T.V. until she addresses you in the respectful manner that you deserve and expect her to treat you with that respect in all situations. Diffuse the Diva. Listen I don't mean to sound harsh but you are the parent, You are in charge, and You are in control of her little world. Ultimately she will be nothing but insecure if you continue to give into the Diva in her. There is taking care of our children and then there is being run over by the proverbial 3 1/2 yr old bulldozer. Would you let anyone else in your life speak to you the way your daughter does??? This is not obsessive compulsive disorder.(I know it's the living I used to make before I started to run my husbands home based business and home school my own children)This is bossy three year old girl syndrome.

Hi Amy/Laura,
First, I very much agree with the first person who posted: children will take the control you give to them.

I see you are trying very hard to not "feed in" to your child's behaviors: awesome! You're on the right track.

May I suggest it's not time for you to take back control? Since your little one seems to be trying to *make* your daily schedule for you, may I suggest you sit down, and write down a new daily schedule that begins with you waking up *before* you child does, and waking *her* up (maybe with a good breakfast at the table and away from the TV?). Plan out her day, include rest time, TV time, snack and meal times, learning times, and times where she has to play alone so you can get you work done. And Stick To It.

Keep her on this schedule, and continue with ignoring her demands as you already are. Have a plan for her if she throws a fit: (quiet-time in her room? etc.)

I hope you can see where I'm coming from. You are the Mom, and that's the roll it sounds like you want to take back. Little ones need things done in "black and white" so it's clear what you want from them. Only give her choices when they do not interfere with what you have planned for the day, or how you are going to do something.

On the subject of OCD, I don't think that's what you're describing. I worked with a child with OCD, and he never wanted anyone else to do anything for him: he had to do it all himself, so it would be done "right;" and he'd do it over and over if you let him; and he worried about it long after you stopped him. (I'm an O.T.)

I think it's great you are so "in tune" with what's going on with your little one: you will be a fantastic leader for her as she grows up!
Good luck!
T

WARNING: This is a LONG response! 

First, if you think she may really be OCD, which is a medical diagnosis, I would have her checked for that and, if necessary, medicated. (BTW, I have two children with OCD, and I can give you more information on that, too, if you need it. Still, with or without OCD, they will still need to learn to function in the real world without others catering to them when they are on their own without their mommy.)

However, if it is not an imbalance of neurotransmitters that is driving her behavior, I would suggest tightening the boundaries and deciding the standard under which she is allowed to approach you, your husband, any adult, other people, etc. She will learn it from you, and you are raising her to be released into the real world, so it helps to filter her activity through the standard of what would be allowed by other people or what would be acceptable as an adult.

I am NOT saying that she needs to act like and adult; that is putting the cart before the horse. She is in training to eventually become an adult, which is different. It is understandable for her to act that way now because of her age, but understandable does not mean acceptable. This will go away with consistency on your part, but wondering what you are doing wrong because she does this is not going to help you. Kids do rude and terrible things because they are kids. That is why they have parents. Do not make it about you or something you have done wrong. I am sure you are doing your best, and she is just attempting to train you to her standards. Kids are smart that way, but the only way they can get away with it is if you let them, so keep up your boundaries, and I would suggest even increasing them.

Again, we're looking at childish behavior and evaluating if it is allowed in society, and, if it isn't, then we respond accordingly. If she could not throw her juice cup at her boss or teacher or classmates, then she cannot throw it at you, either. If her professor, husband, friends, will not perfectly cover her with a blanket without emotional retaliation, then this behavior also needs to go.

I know we are on the same page, and it sounds like you have taken some steps to hold your ground, and that she seems to calm down and get over it when you don't give in. My suggestion for you is that, when the standard is not kept, tighten the standard and demand compliance with it. The temptation of parents is to lower the standard for the illusion of peace. For example, if you ask her to sit on the couch and she sits on a chair next to the couch, she simply did not obey, but many parents will at this point say, "Good enough! At least she's sitting!" NOT true! She is defying you and it needs to be dealt with swiftly and consistently, and the way that is done is to actually TIGHTEN the standard until they comply. Too many choices give a confusing sense of authority to a child who is having challenges with properly wielding that luxury. She needs to first learn how to obey first. Then, as she begins to do that properly, she can fully appreciate being offered choices. For now, she has come to expect this as a right, which it is not. It is a privilege earned by proper behavior.

In our home obedience, must have ALL three of the following:
It must be done:
1. All the way
2. Right away
3. With a happy heart

Lack of any ONE when completing a command means disobedience and that is not the behavior she can exhibit in the real world if she is going to have any success at all. If her boss asks her to do something and she does it completely and quickly but stomps off and mumbles as she goes off to do whiter it is that she has been told, will she keep her job? If her teacher assigns something that she does happily and quickly, but doesn't finish, will she get a good grade? If her husband depends on her to pay some of the bills and she gladly does it and properly prepares them all for mailing but sends them out whenever she feels like it, will they keep the power on? If all three are not present, problems occur. Her training ground for that is now.

I have found that, in these situations, it can help to make a physical boundary until proper behavior is met. For instance, you can lock your door so you won't have juice in your face in the morning. This one was difficult for me, too, but you can always go open it if there is a real need. It is good for children to understand that you are not their 24-7 lackey. If you are otherwise taking care of her needs, you do not need to worry that she will become insecure or feel neglected. She will actually learn to be more confident knowing that she will not die if you are not able to jump to her every whim. You do not need to be awakened so rudely, and locking your door until she can knock, enter politely, and ask for juice with manners can solve this. If she cannot, simply walk her to her room calmly and tell her she can try again to ask the proper way when she feels she is ready, and then walk away. If she begins to freak out, throw a tantrum, mouth off, or anything else that is not something she would be allowed to do to someone else, then simply walk her to her room, calmly and politely tell her she can try again when she is able to do so politely, and shut the door.

When she is ready to comply with simple manners, she can come out, ask nicely, and you can respond accordingly. The philosophy behind it is this: people who won't comply with the standards of society are not allowed to interact with them until they are able to do so properly. When they are ready, they are released to interact with others. If they are not, they are sequestered until they can. It is that simple. She may have tantrums, say terrible things, etc., to try to get your attention, but DO NOT give in. When she is ready to politely approach you, allow her to do so.

Here is a potential scenario:

Child is upset (but NOT to the point of tantrum) because you did not do (insert example from above.)

You: (calmly and smiling) "I know you wanted your sippy cup to match your lid, but we don't have any matching lids for this cup, so this will have to work for today. Do you want to drink out of this cup or have me just put the drink away?"

OR

"I know you wanted your blanket to be placed on you before I turned on the TV, but we don't always get what we want. Did you still want to have a blanket and watch TV, or did you want to go to your room and play quietly?"

OR

"I know you wanted Mommy to get that for you, but Daddy got it for you instead. If you put it back, you will not have it at all. Did you want to have it or put it away?"

Now the choice to respond properly is on the child, and you may need to coach them through this. Let me first say, though, that if and any point they begin by throwing a fit (or an object), freaking out, screaming, etc. then the first thing you do ALWAYS is grab them by the hand (or carry them if necessary) to their room and tell them calmly and politely that they can come out and try again when they can do so politely. Then shut the door and walk away until they can try again with manners. If they come out of their room in any way that is not polite and mannerly, REPEAT above by returning them to their room calmly until they can be polite and say, "That was not polite. You can try again when you are ready. Until then, you need to stay in your room."

This may take a couple of times, I have had it take hours, but I promise you, if you have a child who will take hours on this one, it will eventually be for less and less time as they begin to understand that you are firm and consistent, and tantrums are useless. However, once you begin this process, you MUST follow through until they will only leave their room with compliance, or you will have to start over again, this time the whole process will take longer because they now will think that they can break you.

Once they are ready to come out and try being polite, or if they are upset because of a denied request (but, again, NOT to the point of being out of control about it), you can coach them through the proper process for asking for something politely. One thing that helps me is "offering them their line." This is always done calmly and politely, and it needs to be business only; not emotional. For example:

Child: (Thrusting juice cup in your face.)

You: "That's not how we ask for a drink. You need to say, ‘Mommy, can I please have a drink?’”

Now you give them the opportunity to ask politely for the drink with the “line” you just gave them. If they respond with anything other than, “Mommy, can I please have a drink?” in a way that is all the way, right away, and with a happy heart, you can explain one more time (but only once, since it is not as if she cannot hear you or does not understand at her age) what they need to do by saying:

You: "That's not how we ask for a drink. You need to say, ‘Mommy, can I please have a drink?’ Do you understand what Mommy just said to you?”
Their line is to say, "Yes, Mommy!
You: “Then you need to say, ‘Mommy, can I please have a drink?’”
Now it’s her turn/ If she will not answer affirmatively and then ask for the drink in the way that you instructed, then she is not ready to ask politely, so it’s back to the room scenario until she is ready to do it properly. If she us able to understand what you have said and capable of doing what you have asked, then not to do so is direct defiance, so you need to go back to calmly walking her to her room until she is ready to try again properly. As you walk her there, you can say, “That's not how we ask for a drink. You need to say, ‘Mommy, can I please have a drink?’ When you want to try again politely you can come out and ask the right way.”
Anything other than an affirmative response and asking politely is not obedience, so she must be returned to her room EVERY time until she can comply. Trust me, eventually she will, though. The key is for you to remain calm, polite, matter-of-fact, and unemotional about it. You are bringing her to a standard that will not bend for her strong will, so she will eventually get it if you remain consistent and do not bend to her strong will, either, because society and the real world surely won’t if she doesn’t learn to control herself and that strong will. This is our parental duty, and the parts that is not so enjoyable, but is the most important for our children’s long-term success in life, so hang in there!
Eventually, (again I have had this take a couple of tries and had it take hours, but it has always eventually worked as long as I have been firm and steady) they will do exactly what you have asked. They will emerge from their room humbly and ask politely for the drink. This is what you have been waiting for! Now you need to reinforce that they get what they
You: "Thank you for obeying. Great job as asking politely! Now let’s go get you a drink!” And you go do exactly that.
This can be applied to any behavior you desire from her. She can either do and say as she has been instructed, or she can be alone until she can be polite with the rest of us. She will need to be at peace if she receives a cup without a matching lid, she will need to say thank you after you give her the drink, she will need to thank her father if he gets her something she wanted you to get her, she will need to thank you and remain polite and calm if you do not cover her with a blanket (of course after she has properly asked) or turn on the TV in the order she prefers, and any number of other examples where she needs to speak and act politely. If she won’t; it’s back to the room scenario above.

If she won’t do any of the above things properly:
Give her her “line” and a chance to comply,
If she will not, confirm that she understands what you are asking of her, and give her her “line” again
Until she can respond affirmatively and do or say what you asked of her, it’s back to her room until she can.

This also goes for the list of choices I gave above and any other new ones that may come up. When you say, “I know you wanted mommy to put your jacket on, but Daddy helped you with it this time. You need to thank Daddy for helping you and you need to wear the jacket. Do you understand? I need to hear you say, ‘Yes, Mommy.’””

(They say, “Yes, Mommy.”)

Now you say, “Thank you for being polite/having a good attitude/etc. Now please thank Daddy for helping you. Say, ‘Thank you daddy for helping me put on my jacket.’”

(She complies.)

You affirm her, “You’re just SO polite! What a blessing you are I love it when you are such a big girl, etc.”

(Again, she complies as instructed, OR it’s back to the room. It’s pretty simple, but not necessarily easy when you are in the heat of it. But, remain calm for her sake and yours. If you can endure this you will have much peace as she grows older, especially as a teen! She will from time to time find other ways to test you, but if you go back to this exercise, she should “get it” all that much quicker since she already knows it is pointless to test you because you are concistent and firm (while also loving and calm about it).

I really hope this helps. I’m expecting number six, and I promise that nothing docile has ever come from my womb, so I feel your pain!  Please let me kow if you want me to send you any of the resources I have used. I have had to find help from many sources. I’m not that smart or talented all by myself! I wish you the best! 

My five year old went through this a while back, and for us, it was completely a phase. I think at this age, they just want to CONTROL things. These things seem stupid or ridiculous to US, but to them, controlling the color of their sippy cup is the biggest decision in their little lives. I'm not saying that you should give in to every little whim, but some of the things are just a matter of giving them a little control. I totally understand the go-getter momma thing. My son did that as well. He did quickly learn that he cannot control everything and that if he wanted something, he might just have to settle for Dad. My advice, just pick your battles. If you decide that it's a control choice you're going to allow, allow it before she throws a fit; otherwise, she will just learn that throwing the tantrum will get her what she wants. I gave in to the simple OCD things. For example, every night we had to have story time before bed. After we finished the story, he had a cup of milk. When he finished the milk, the cup HAD to be placed on his headboard. It seemed so silly to me, but it was part of his little routine, so I thought, "What does it hurt?" I just grabbed the sippy cup in the morning and put it in the dishwasher, and we were all happy. Good luck! Hopefully it's just a phase.

The previous posters have offered good suggestions. I also agree that you are doing a great job and encourage you to keep it up. Stand firm and offer choices with consequences.

I learned to offer my daughter choices during transition times to give her a sense of participation/control. For example, "It's time to turn off the tv. Would you like to turn it off, or should I?" (or "would you like to turn off the DVD player or the tv") This has worked well for us. We do use time-outs and the 1-2-3 warning system, which has helped a lot.

This may just take time and consistent implementation. Take a breath and remind yourself that you are doing a great job!

Oh my goodness! Toddlers seem to get to a point where they realize that not everything is in their control and they get super frustrated. In your daughter's case, it sounds like you gave her some typical choices for her age (like which cereal to eat etc.) and she has decided that she likes to be in control. A lot of kids develop idiosyncrasies and maybe that's all it is with her. From what you've written, her behavior doesn't really sound like OCD to me (my best friend was diagnosed OCD when we were 11). It sounds more like she has taken the inch you've given her and turned it into a mile.

I think it's probably a good idea to try and take back a little control by countering her unreasonable demands with some gentle discipline. Time outs can certainly be helpful with kids this age and I would continue to use them. I would suggest that you stop catering to her morning demands altogether. If she starts up the tantrums when you refuse to give her juice in the right cup or do things in the right order, then put her back in her bed for a few minutes to calm down and then start over. I can understand how it might seem easier to just do what she asks than to deal with the tantrums, however, I think you could be setting an undesirable precedent for the rest of her childhood and into her adolescence. If you cave in to her now, imagine how she might behave in 10 yrs.

On the other hand, there could be the small possibility that she is obsessive/compulsive. Does she exhibit any other "ritualistic" behaviors or odd compulsions? These sites have some info that could be helpful in deciding if she fits the bill for OCD:

http://www.kidshealth.org/parent/emotions/behavior/OCD.html
http://www.healthyplace.com/Communities/Ocd/sandra/signs_...

Obviously nobody knows your child better than you do and if you're concerned that her behavior is affecting her well being, you should consult your pediatrician.

Please go to the library and check out the book How to Behave, so your Preschooler will, too! by Sal Severe, Phd. This book has given me a bunch of ideas on how to deal w/my 4 yr old that thinks she runs the show and talks back to me. The book talks a lot about focusing on the positive things she does and bring attention to THAT, instead of all the bad things. Once she sees that she is being rewarded for good behavior, then that will take precedence. Good luck!

Is there any way that she could do all these things for herself? Put a sippy in the refrigerator that she can reach at night for in the morning. Teach her how to turn on the TV, put things that she needs within her reach. Then tell her that if she wants it, she can get it. Be sure to tell her what a big girl she is when she does this. Also, does she have any chores? My kids had chores from the time they were two years old. THere are things she can do to help YOU, and it makes them feel good to know that they are helping.

I don't have advice different from anyone else's but I wanted you to know that you aren't alone! I have a 3 year old son too and he is quite picky/demanding but I stick with my way of doing things. I think they are all just learning! This will pass, I've been told! Keeping my fingers crossed!!

Amy and Laura,
Hi. My 2.5 year old is the same way. I have found that I choose my battles. Throwing things is not acceptable, but he can pick out his own cups, bowls, etc.
I do want to say that I seriously doubt a child can be truly diagnosed with OCD at such an early age (unless there are HUGE red flags, which doesn't sound like your case - but i'm not a doctor - in that field). I work at a preschool and have found that many children emit OCD like behavior, but I believe they are just trying to find their way and they do things a certain way to find comfort.
Just my two cents. Good luck. Don't stress too much about it. It sounds like she is just testing her boundaries.
D.

All I wanted to say was that it sounds like you are doing everything right. You didn't mention how long this behavior has been going on. My suggestion would be to give it a little time--hold firm to making your boundaries and expectations clear, and see if it sorts itself out after a time. My oldest daughter has always pushed against the limits to see what will work and what doesn't. Sometimes it's taken a while, but she has definitely come to recognize the difference between the negotiable issues and the non-negotiables. And, for the most part, we are conflict free these days (she's eight).

Good luck. Demanding girls are tough, but I think it's a lot easier to teach girls to be less demanding than it is to teach them to be more assertive in this world. I've always been glad my daughter erred on the side of aggressiveness--I don't worry so much about her standing up for herself, and she can learn the balance between being strong and being pushy.

If this is truly o/c/c, you need to see a therapist. Can't help but wonder how long she has been the boss in this house. Do you know the best gift you can give a child? The word "NO". No is not being mean. It is a way to show a child that there are rules in life and boundaries to behavior. They rcognize safety and love within those boundaries. This lesson begins quite early, when you first realize your "baby" is showing signs of being spoiled and is too demanding of your time and attention. Good luck with this situation.

HI! I want to first say not giving in to her every demand is a good first step. I taught school for 8 years and also have a 3 1/2 year old of my own. I had to relate to a few things. My daughter is incredibly particular about how she likes her blanket, toys, cup, etc. Since she likes being organized, I try to help her develop ways to organize some of her things because it makes her feel better. For example, her shoes go in the blue basket in the laundry room shelf.
I don't know if you have ever looked at some of the characteristics of astrological signs, but they are sometime enlightening. Personality profiles are also helpful. My daughter is a Virgo and so is my husband. They, by nature, are both very particular about how they like things. Granted they are picky about different things, but I sometimes just have to laugh or I will get incredibly annoyed.
I am not as particular, so I guess what I am saying is you are absolutely right to not give in to ridiculous things such as that fact that you ALWAYS have to do things. However, after working with many children, I have learned that some just are incredibly particular and some are not. The kids seriously feel better or more comfortable with things a certain way. If there is some way to give her ways to get her energy out by organizing silverware, socks, anything... maybe she can start using this characteristic in a positive way. Also, continue the time outs when she is out of line or if it is more than you can handle at the moment.
I guess the bottom line is we are all just humans trying to live together in peace. So be clear with her the best you can about when you are too tired or unable to help her with certain behaviors and hopefully as time goes by it will be easier to use these behaviors to benefit her in the future. Hopefully she will be very particular about any guys she wants to date. :)

Amy and Laura,

I like some of the ideas that others have posted and it sounds like you are trying to be the parent and she won't let you. I agree with the lady who said you should have her evaluated by a professional in the mental health field. If this is a mental illness, like adhd, ocd, or bi-polar, you will just spin your wheels when it comes to disipline and no book can help you (even though those are great books and I recommend them as well). Follow your instinct. You know your child best and if you feel this is not normal behavior for a three year old who has a consistent and loving home, get help as soon as possible. I have a son with bi-polar and one with adhd. I never imagined I would be one of those parents with the kid throwing a fit in the store, but I am. I am a good mom and my kids have a loving home, but mental illness is exhausting and you never know where it will strike. You are doing a great job. Keep it up. Also, if you have her evaluated, even if there is no mental illness, it won't hurt her and it will give you peace of mind!

Hi Amy and Laura,
We have a son who is turning 3 in a week and has obsessive compulsive tendencies as well. He was great as a 2 year old but I guess he is asserting his independence now. He can be very bossy and when he gets an idea in his head, watch out! My only suggestion to you is to continue to be consistent with your timeouts, etc and eventually this stage will pass and you'll have another new challenge on your hands. If it is not one thing, it is another. Good luck.

I have 4 children and a couple of them were very controlling like this. I still have some issues with my youngest but it is getting better. The books that the other ladies posted should be very encouraging and helpful to you. (I love books!) One thing I wanted to say is to be totally consistent in enforcing your rules, which includes how she treats you, and being consistent in discipline. If you are totally consistent, you should see results. I had trouble being consistent with my kids but eventually had to learn if I wanted to stay sane with four kids. I realized that this was the real key to any behavioral problem... be consistent and positive! I hope that helps. Good luck! You are doing a great job!

Okay - you've already recieved some great advice here on books to read and the sort. I too have a son who has been very particular since a very young age. Routine is key for him. He has to have things the same everyday or it throws his mood off - he can recover but that is with introducing another routine that he is used to. He has been diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome and Sensory Integration Disorder with OCD tendencies. Basically - you are part of your child's routine. Being upset with Daddy doing instead of mommy isn't a control thing over you - it's a change in the routine. My son is now much better with changes to the normal schedule - that has come with maturity (he is now 8), and therapy - OT specifically. And then letting him know that the change is coming. With your daughter you might say something about Daddy taking over for Mommy's spot and have your husband do the routine the same way (or as close to as possible) to help her. Or ask her to help set up a 'routine' that is special for her and daddy to do together. It might be sippy cup at your bedside for you - but for daddy, if he is up earlier than you, say he has sippy cup waiting. Children with OCD tendencies don't demand because they want to be in control over you - they demand because the different routine is scary for them and they want to know what comes next.

I hope that helps some. And it does get better - whether it be because of maturity of the child, more flexibility to the schedule or just simply the parent realizing that certain schedules will have to be for the flow of the family. That doesn't mean giving in or not having consequences for poor behavior - it just means picking the battles that really matter. Respect for you and others is one I would time out for. But sitting with her and saying - okay, this is the routine and this is how we will do it. Or okay - this has been the routine and Mommy isn't comfortable with it like that anymore, let's make a new plan.

Best to you!

I have a 3 1/2 year old daughter just like that. She even tells us what to say at the appropriate time. I have talked to her dr and to the teachers at daycare and they all say that this is normal, that she is trying to find her place and see what she can get away with. I have to reccommend a book that i bought that was a real eye opener. it is called "have a new kid by Friday" by Dr Leman. it is great and explains that how you and your husband react to things explains a lot about your child's personality. just hang in there, my daughter has changed so much since she's turned three, that every week is different. Good luck!

I can only comment on the cup/dishes...our spoons/plates/bowls are in the bottom drawer. Let her pick them all out and put them on the table. If they are dirty and that is the one she wants, make her take it out and wash it herself. The cup can go in the fridge the night before (like someone else said). I think part of this cup/plate thing started from us! AAK! (look at this cool spiderman/dora/cinderella cup!)...My son has 2 but not (YET!) neurotic about using them. Good luck dear.

Have you talked to the pediatrician about her behavior? She may be bipolar. She needs to learn to live with rules because there are rules wherever you go in life.She can't continue to be rude and you don't deserve that. I'm sure she wouldn't like having the sippy cup thrown in her face to wake her up. Why is she up before you are? If you were up first then she couldn't throw the cup in your face.

Unplug the TV and then act like it isn't working then she can find something else to do and she won't need to be covered with her blanket unless she is going to sleep. She definately needs to be dealt with consistantly.

I have 3 sons and a daughter and my daughter was the easiest of the 4. Consistancy with rules always got me what I wanted from then behavior wise. People always said how sweet and polite they were when we went anywhere.

I Have a daughter that seem to also be tough to discipline and very distructive. I thought she might have some sort of disorder like ADHD. I talked to her pediatrician and the big question he asked me was "Does she do this when you leave her with other caregivers?" My answer was no. and his was that she was not ADHD. He recommended a book to called 1-2-3 Magic by Dr.Thomas W. Phelan. Its a book on effective discipline for children 2-12. My daughter's doctor told me that I needed to find a way to annoy my children to the point that they wouldn't want to annoy me. I bought and read the book. Then I began to use the book and to my surprise, it actually worked. This may not be the solution for you but it might not be a total loss in trying this technique. It worked for me and a few of the other parents in my daughter's dance class that were having behavior problems in their kids.

OK I know you got a lot of responses...I didn't even read them all. You also already gave us an update but... one more peice can't hurt right?
Well, my son always wanted breakfast as soon as he got up and would wake us up. I made a big deal about how big he was and asked him if HE thought he was big enough to get his own breakfast. Of course he said yes and I took steps to make sure he could. I made his own cabinet for cups/bowls. Moved the cereal lower....

I know you daughter can't make cereal BUT maybe you could put her juice into her sippy cup the night before and ask her if she is big enough to get her own sippy cup in the morning. She will want to prove how she can do stuff herself. Then ask if she can put in the movie.....

Make sure to make a big deal as soon as you see her in the morning about how amazed you are and how responsible she is by getting her own cup from the fridge and how good she is being.

Also, I'm no child expert but if she wants something done a certain way then try telling her you will do it this way and if she would like she can change it anyway she wants, because she knows best the exact the way to do it. Let the responsibility lie with her. She should not be telling you how/what to do it.

Good Luck! K.

You have gotten some great advice, I'm learning as I read it! I LOVED Tania's post, the schedule thing sounds like it would help your daughter as she sounds like she needs and like order and boundaries. I have two older girls (9&6) that each went through very similiar stages at 3 1/2 like your daughter. I was very consistent and strict with the older one (because I had the time) and she is such an amazing girl now. My younger daughter, I was not as consistent with her and I am now paying for it! CONSISTENCY IS KEY! 3 is definately the hardest year (but I haven't hit the teen years yet!) Good luck!

Having a child who is ADHD, ODD, mildly OCD with high anxiety the only thing I would strongly recommend is talking to a therapist or psychiatrist who specializes in children. We recognized early on that our daughter was ADHD. The medication helped enough that she could stay focused in school but did nothing to really help her attitude. Knowing that kids with ADHD tend to mature a bit slower we just figured that over time she would eventually mature mentally. She is turning 14 next week and the older she gets the more her personality or attitude really seperate her from her peers. We've had to put her on additional medication to try and ease her irritability and we work closely with a psychiatrist now. We have also done research on Nuerofeedback and have just started on this program. I would suggest looking into it. You can google Neurofeedback and find out a lot of information. We figure it is going to be at least 6 months of nuerofeedback training before we see if it is going to work for her. Working with the psychiatrist has really helped alot. He is the one who noticed the extreme anxiety. I always assumed it was just part of the ADHD! The medication has helped as she is getting along better with peers at school but the goal is to get her off all meds and be able to learn appropriate social skills. I guess that basically, in a nut shell, I'm saying that I would suggest getting a professional opinion early on. I really wish we would have as I feel my daughter has spent many years lonely and unable to make friends due to our fear of admitting there were bigger problems! I wish you the best of luck!!

Many of these things that you describe can be symptoms of an autism spectrum disorder, including sensory integration. In this situation even the best parenting is not going to completely extinguish these behaviors. If this is what it is, you are going to have to give yourself a little grace, because truely, it is not you.

Many symptoms of OCD, ADD/ADHD, and oppositional defiance disorder, as well as anxiety, all cross over with Autism Spectrum disorders. Many of the things that seem like "normal" kid behaviors to most parents are in fact carried to the extreme with kids on the spectrum. My daughter was diagnosed at age 5 with Autism. For years before she recieved therapy because we had extreme sensory issues, and low muscle tone. She is verbal and very outgoing and passes very well, which is why we didn't catch it for so long. Girls on the spectrum also look very different than boys. There is also a saying that if you have seen one child with autism, you have seen one child with autism. So I say to all parents, try to realize that there are so many different levels and presentations that this can take. Also, take heart because there is so much that can be accomplished with good therapy early on. It could all just be typical behavior or it could be something more. I always think, better to be proactive.

My daughter did a lot of that sort of behavior, and heaven help me if I didn't follow through just so. She is almost 7 now and goes to a regular school and is in a regular class. It's a lot better now, or maybe I am just used to it. I know to put ice in her glass (not plastic cup!). I know that she likes the blanket just so. I know which washcloths and which towels I can and cannot use. But there are certainly things that still set her off. Napkins or washcloths left out for example. But on the whole it is managable. I think also understanding that it is her autism, and not that she is just naughty, or that I am somehow not a good enough mother, helps.

I forgot to look where you live, but if you need any idea for where to go for resources, just shoot me an email. I can give you a general idea even if you live in another state. Good luck to you. I know what it is to worry about your child and how hard a potential problem is to face. Like I said, feel free to email.

All the best,

J.

PS. we have problems with repetition as well. My daughter will often ask me the same questions over and over. This has gotten a little bit better with time, but is still present and heightened in certain situations. It's called Echolalia.

Have you always been firm, or is this new behavior for you that's she's just not used to yet?

Is everyone else firm with her also, or are you the only one who doesn't "toe her line"?

If the answer to both of those questions is yes, I would recommend you discuss your daughter's behavior with her pediatrician.

I admire your patience. It's obvious that you love your daughter and want what's best for her.

Hello Amy and Larua,

WOW! You are doing everything right! AND this is excellent training for a teenager!
When my teenager was out of control, the counselor let me know that because of my divorce and guilt I said yes to her when I should of said no and was wishy washy-- did not hold firm to my decisions.

The counselor also said it is the child's job to push the envelope! They will test you every step of the way! AND, by you holding firm and NEVER being wishy washy -- you are making your child feel safe! She can count on you!

So, you are not wishy washy, you are the parent, making the rules and not giving in and doing it very lovingly.

The only thing to change is your confidence and self doubt. As parents we so want our kids to be happy and happy with us! That may not come until they are 30 years old! This one is really testing you! Stop letting it upset you -- and don't let her see you get frustrated, flustered by her! It is a very powerful place to be -- to be 3 and controlling the emotions of Mom or Dad. So, make her demands a game, laugh, ignore, set the rules, let her know what you will and won't do and then how she feel or what she does is up to her.

Some kids throw temper tantrums, hold their breath and turn blue, pass out and fall down! How do you stop that behavior?, stop giving it so much power! Laugh, ingnore it and go about your day, your life your chores with NO upset!

By the time she is a teenager, she will know that the more she upsets you, the greater chance she has of getting her way, because it is exhausting! Parents wear down and then they say OK!

Kids do what works! When it doesn't work, they stop and try something else! What works here is that she can see she is upsetting you.

What do we want to teach our children. They are responsible for their own feelings! To do that you want to show her that rules are rules, consequences are just the consequences -- not right or wrong. You enforce the consequences matter of factly.

And, your job is to raise a healthy, mature adult that will contribute to the world. You are doing that!

Great job! Keep doing what you are doing!
Long response, did that make sense to you?
S.
866-508-2910

Hi! I know exactly what you're going through! My oldest son went through the exact same thing. :) From my experience it does pass...just like every other stage. But, it sure is frustrating. Hang in there!
~M.

I just want to encourage you, you sound like you are doing all the right things. You have what is known as a strong willed child. Do not let her control things, keep up the good work. Don't let her see if she gets you upset, remember you are the adult. Keep putting her in time out - You are the parent, don't ever allow her to think otherwise or you will have more problems later on down the road. I know. Anyway, keep doing what you are doing and try to make individual time with her alone.

Take care,
K.

Hi,

After reading the original post, the responses and your follow up, I wanted to write my thoughts to you. I am 37 yrs old and have six children of my own. I also have OCD. Let me start by saying that OCD is different for every one and it varies greatly on the severity from person to person. I think I have always had it but it was not diagnosed until I was in my late 20's. I always knew there was something wrong and that a lot of my thoughts and actions were stupid and irrational, but I could not stop it. I was diagnosed after having a severe panic attack (thought I was having a heart attack). Any way, the actions that your daughter was displaying did sound as though it could be on the obsessive/compulsive side, but it is not necessarily the case. What you are doing sounds to be working, so keep it up. One of the therapies with OCD is to work through your fears to overcome them, so by making her face up to them you are helping her overcome them. Try to be patient, what seems ridiculous to you can be very frustrating to her, like the straightened blanket. I have to say that one thing I still cannot overcome and I have tried, is having my socks on crooked, if the seam is not sitting just right on my foot it drives me bonkers and I have to take them off. My kids find it funny and so they will twist my socks just to get a reaction. I know it is not easy living with this kind of demanding behaviour, even I can't stand myself sometimes. Just try to understand that if it is OCD, she has a hard time controlling it. Keep up what you are doing and keep you heart turned to God, he will always be there to help you through it. Good luck and God bless.

D.

P.S. After 5 years of medication I am finally able to control my behaviours without the meds. Still wash my hands frequently and the whole sock thing but everything else is quite under control.

Ah....the 3's! Tougher than the two's if you ask me. My daughter who is 2 and my son when he was 2 to 3 kind of did the same thing, so you're not alone. You said you don't give in to her tantrums and that is great, but you didn't say how you do react. Do you get angry, do you yell, do you get frustrated? The reason I'm asking is that according to Dr. Phil, kids don't do something unless they're getting a payoff. So what's her payoff? That is the question. I'm wondering what she would do if you just ignored her tantrum and walked away...not scolding her or putting her in timeout, but just turning around, walking away and ignoring her. If she didn't get any reaction, I'm wondering what she'd do. If she's getting some kind of reaction out of you (even if it's scolding her), that may be the reason she does it. The three's are a power struggle between parent and child and it seems like you're holding strong and not giving in; however, whatever reaction she's getting, she wants, so try something different and not reacting at all (unless she physically tries to hit you or something). Good luck and hang in there. It get's better in the 4's.

My daughter, now almost 8, had similar tendencies. If I cut the piece of cheese wrong she would throw it on the floor, cry and prefer to not eat it than to have one that wasn't a perfect square. Certain foods were just not going to go in her mouth no matter what, she would rather starve and some nights she did.... There is a great book that really helped me "Raising your Spirited Child" by Mary Kurcinka- And then a lot of patience. It sounds like you are doing everything you can.... The book talks about choosing your battles and knowing what is going to set your child off so that you can help them be successful and also ease them into the "real world". I guess we just worked with my daughter and as she got older have helped her identify those areas that are important to her- tags in her clothes.... food not cut the right way... or whatever and she is to the point where she can talk herself out of frustrating situations a lot of the time. Hang in there, don't give in, and it will get better- and then worse- and then better.... One thing I really loved about the book was it helped me to find my daughter's strengths and focus on those so that I could hang on to that when I was really frustrated with her. Best of luck. M.

I just want to let you know you are not the only one. My son is 3 1/2 he started this kind right before he turned 3. He only wanted milk in a certain cup with a straw all the way to the top or wouldn't drink....or even only wanting a certain colored blanket at bedtime....or a certain plate with certian food...or food not touching each other.. Or didn't want to leave becuase his hair got messed up...What a phase..HAHA..It drove me nuts!!!

I just gave him what I had at the time and when he started a tantrum we would put him in time-out!! or he didn't get dinner!! We made it very clear to him in the beginning what would happen to him. He's gotten SOOO much better since then...We hardly have that problem now..It will get better, just stay firm.. You are doing a great job!!! Don't forget that..

N.

Hi Amy,

I TOTALLY sympathize, as my son was very much like this. It ended up being primarily a dietary issue; but I also switched to "green" laundry detergent and organic sheets.

Feel free to call me if you want to talk w/ me about all the dails...way too much to post here.

Warm Regards,
G. Van Luven
Health and Nutrition Consultant
Healthy Habits Wellness Center, LLC
~Helping you create a lifetime of wellness~
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Dear Amy and Laura V; Of course it is impossible for me to diagnose your child, but I thought you should know that OCD is an anxiety disorder. The compulsive behaviors serve to lessen the anxiety. Since your daughter has focused on you, I'm wondering if she has some reason to think you might leave her or if you have been sick. If her behavior doesn't change in a while, I suggest taking her to a child psychologist for an evaluation.

Mother of OCD kids who have survived to middle age :)