Still Holding My Tongue?

"Is the grass greener on the other side?" Yes-and it stays that way for two years and then it changes.

If a girlfriend were to come to me with this, my response would be fairly predictable (for me, anyway)

"Sweetie, go talk to someone. Find a counselor. I cannot know what you are dealing with, or how to deal with it, but I think you need someone who will give you space to figure out what you want and give you support through that."

I don't agree with staying in a loveless marriage. I did that the last year I was with my ex and-- so thankfully-- I had counseling and support through my decision to divorce. Your post, though, is atypical to many of the 'marital issues' posts on this site. You realize that you made mistakes, you realize that you are not 100% perfect, and you need someone to give you some objective advice. My guess is that you would do well with a counselor to help you feel like you are making good choices, and to give you guidance going forward. (I know my counselor did, even when I didn't want her to. :) )

If you feel that things are over, be brave enough to get some support and go forward. I wish you blessings of support and empathy. Good luck!

What I got out of Robin's answer is that no matter what you do you're likely to have the same thing happen again. The grass always seems greener when we're somewhere we don't feel our best. I don't get along with my hubby all the time. The kids, the bills, the day to day arguing over this or that....it kills the intimacy needed for a couple to connect.

What you're feeling is that non-connection to this man any more. He is a room mate and nothing more. You want more. I can't blame you for this. You do deserve better.

So here's what she was trying to tell you. Any person you could potentially end up with could end up exactly the same way. There's no guarantee you'll be any happier in a different relationship. You could even end up with someone who is an abuser that will hurt you or worse.

Making a marriage work takes everyone trying and committing to it emotionally. There is truly nothing worse than being in a loveless marriage. It's torture. BUT there is no guarantee that any other relationship will be any better. It will be good and nice and most "new" relationships feel great that first 2 years then the humdrum normal stuff takes over and the "glow" is gone. It's the same that most marriages are. Not the "in love" gooey stuff...lol.

So I suggest before you decide you are filing for divorce consider the things that will most likely happen.

Judges ARE giving men full custody more and more then ordering child support and spousal support from the ex-wife to the ex-husband. You will likely lose your home, your status, everything but your job, you'll have to be working full time or more to show you can support your child without the so to be ex's support.

Since you work you'll have to show that you will be able to provide child care, a home, food, transportation, clothing, extra curricular activities, all on your own without having to depend on the soon to be ex for anything. Otherwise he'll get full custody because he's been working and providing these things or kiddo all along.

Even if your job is enough to fully support you and kiddo he may still try to say he can provide more if his income is higher.

SAHM's can almost forget full custody and 50/50 is not going to work either. He gets all the benefits and doesn't have to give you a single penny because neither of you have more custody than the other. So no one has to pay anything to the other or for the other.

So 50/50 visitation will go something like this. You get kiddo one week, he gets kiddo the next week. You have to pay your own child care bill, he pays his own child care bill. If someone wants to go out of town for a family reunion or their mother is dying in the hospital kiddo can't go due to the court order where kiddo has to be in residence at the other's home by a certain time of a certain day. If you decide to go out of town without kiddo YOU have to pay someone to pick kiddo up on the day they come to YOUR house and watch them until you get back.

That's the worst case scenario of course but it could happen. These are some very valid reason's that 50/50 custody doesn't usually work out well. One person is always getting the short end. Then there's the filing of taxes. Both parents want that benefit. No one gets to do it every year when the custody is split.

Going through a divorce in these times is hard enough. Going through it if you are trying to just go out and find happiness isn't worth what this will do to the other spouse.

So these reasons are the reason's I say it's more important to get to a point where you can live with this man, sit next to him at dinner, share the kids with him, lean on him as if he was a close friend, etc...find some part of you that realizes he's okay to be around and he is a good friend to have and a good dad.

Couples counseling, intensively, if you want to save the marriage. Individual counseling or therapy if you choose to leave. If money is an issue for either, ask about sliding scale fees or find a county or city mental health department and ask them for references and ideas for lower-cost counseling or therapy. As stuck as you say you are, mere "words of wisdom" from strangers on a forum are meaningless; you need to untangle some stuff that goes back, it seems, to your teenage years fleeing home into an early marriage. That is for professionals to sort, and wise words of "stay" or "divorce" really aren't going to help.

You say that you did counseling on your own but scheduling was tough and he would be all in your face wanting to know about it. Well, the solution is that you do counseling together. Or else. You don't "find" the time; you make the time, even if it means making arrangements with others to pick up your child or take her places she needs to be.

It sounds like it might have to be an ultimatum: We start intensive couples therapy or I am considering leaving. Only you know whether that kind of ultimatum will persuade him to do this or will make him defensive enough to get his own lawyer and leave you and fight you for custody as well. That's the big risk with an ultimatum.

It's telling that when you finally talked with him, he tried to make changes but you are still unsatisfied. And truly the changes he made may have been too little too late, though you do take responsibility for things too. I think things are buried so deep here and resentments have festered for so long that you need a professional to dig things out for both of you. He changed and may feel he's really made his best effort; you don't; why not? You feel trapped; is it because you went from marrying your HS sweetheart to escape home, then had a kid, then ended up in a marriage you dislike with another child whom you fear hurting? Truly, no one's "words of wisdom" here are going to help you. Therapy and a good lawyer, if that's where it ends up, are the places you need to go. If you skip straight to the lawyer, be aware that you are not doing any of the heavy work of finding out what is really going on with your own choices. If you don't find out those things, you risk repeating them.

I am really sorry you are going thru this. I was once in a marriage similar to yours. I was young and rushed into a marriage and I wasn't truly in love with him. He was nice to me and I thought we could make it work. But I was never really sexually attracted to him and there was little romance in our marriage. We would go months without touching eachother. However, we did have 2 boys. Things got worse after they were born and we were merely roommates but I did the majority of parenting. He actually ended the marriage when our boys were very small. I resisted at first because of the boys, but later realized it was for the best. Time passed and I've now been with the love of my life for 5 years now. Our marriage is nothing like my first. I can't even describe the love I feel toward my husband. We are so connected and we make each other happy. I can't imagine life without him. He is an amazing dad and stepdad more so than my ex could ever be. My boys are happy too. I guess my point is, I think about how unhappy I would be and how many years I would have wasted if I stayed married to my ex, simply because of my boys. I finally know I can have a happy healthy marriage. And I will always cherish that. You can't go on in a loveless marriage. You deserve to be happy too. Good luck!

Honestly, I've watched some of my dd's friends' divorced parents and if there's any way you can stay together until she's finished school, I would do it. Kids really suffer in broken homes. Unless he's abusive, I would stay. I do think many marriages go through that "lack of something special". If you break up and start dating again, that's really hard on kids too.

No easy answer, but I would stick it out until your kid is much older. It sounds like you had a previous relationship (you have a son) and that didn't work out either. There's no "perfect" situation and this could make things worse financially too.

Consider couple's counseling, or individual counseling. Even if you split, it can help you communicate for the sake of your child. You will be in each other's lives for many, many years and communication will help everyone. If you find in counseling that you feel better, great! If you find that you do not, then you can navigate toward a different life. If you can't tell him how you feel at home, tell him in the counselor's office and have the counselor mediate. Right now you are just treading water and a professional may help you figure out what path to take and how to take it.

ETA: This is where you make yourself a priority and you flat out say you have an appointment. Either he watches his own kids for your mental health or you get a sitter. If he badgers you, then ask the counselor how to have boundaries where what you discuss is your business, unless he's willing to come put in the time with you. If you are truly "done" with this marriage, then there is likely a lot that will be said while things get settled. Good boundaries will keep you from doing or saying things out of spite vs working toward a reasonably good solution. My DH's ex used to call him at work and pick fights. I once asked him, "Why did you answer the phone?" You have choices. You don't have to talk to him. You've been good at holding your tongue for 2 years, per your questions. I understand the defeatest feeling. That nothing will get better, nothing is quite right, etc. Sometimes it isn't right, and you make the most of what it is.

You've done SO much, mom. You've tried a ton. But you can't do this alone. You need a marriage counselor. Go by yourself and then bring him with you. You will never be happy if you can't work through this.

Please go to a marriage counselor. You deserve to have happiness in your life. Find happiness with him or cut the cord. You are still young and you and your husband can get through this. But please don't have anymore children until you two really work things out.

ETA: read your ETA.
Well, has he ever said how he feels?
If you both feel the same way, and are intangible to each other, then that is not really a relationship.
Or maybe is his whole family just cold fish and unaffectionate?
Why did he marry you?
Why did you marry him?
Do you both have anything, in common?
---------------

You said he has given you what you wanted for the last 15 years.... but it is 2 years too late so to speak.
But he did do it.
You have what you wanted all this time.
But you still don't want him. Nor have romantic feelings for him as you said.

Well, how does he, feel?

Sometimes in marriage, both spouses only "see" and look at, what they don't like in the other person. And they only see, inadequacies or faults or what they don't like. And for SOME people, even if they have all that they want and the romantic feelings too... they still, don't like their spouse.
Some people have everything, but still don't like their spouse. And are never ever, satisfied.

You are married. But I have a friend who... had lots of suitors. Then she'd complain about them etc. No guy was ever good enough (even if they were) and no guy was EVER, perfect enough. Ever. And now, she complains about how she isn't even married, nor has she ever been proposed to. Nor does she have any kids. And then she wonders, why me?
Once she had a really great great Boyfriend. "Perfect." All the qualities she was looking for. But she was really, hot and cold with him. Even if he was constant and put up with her fickleness. And one day he wanted to get more serious. And oh boy, she couldn't handle it. She played even more hard to get. She just liked the challenge. And she even MOVED to another State! With an excuse that the careers were better there etc. And he put up with a long distance relationship with her, to which she agreed. And he'd visit her etc. Well... one day, he just got FED UP ROYAL. After all, he tried hard and did and was... everything she hoped for in a guy. He was practically her "ideal" guy. BUT she was SABOTAGING IT. So again, one day he just got fed up and dumped her! The nerve, right? Ahem. AND then, he found... someone else. A great girl, who WAS able to settle down and be mature about a real relationship and all of its responsibilities. My friend, LOST the guy. Because, it was not him... it was her. Her fault. But he was ALL the things, she looks for in a guy. She can only, handle, dating. Not relationships.
And she still will sometimes talk about it him. And she was actually jealous, of his life now. A family, a Spouse, he has a good job, a "normal" life etc.
Well too bad for her.
But she hasn't learned.
But we all know, once she gets what she wants in a guy, she loses interest. Gets bored. Its her own downfall.
Oh and she wishes she could FIND a guy and get married and have children. Well its practically too late for her.
The thing is, she's had lots of great boyfriends. But she can't handle it.

No marriage stays a honeymoon forever.
And even if it does, it takes HARD work.
From both, spouses.

Why did you marry this Husband????

That loving feeling is very hard to hold on to and to get back after you've lost it. I didn't see that you had tried marriage counseling. It doesn't solve everything but a therapist might be the third party that can see something obvious or say something meaningful. We only know your online personality.

The only tiny thing that does stand out in your previous questions is your lack of quality sleep. Makes me wonder if anxiety and depression had nudged out your feelings of love or if the lack of love has made you anxious. Ok, I will say that on occasion, you have been a bit high strung. Doesn't mean it wasn't warranted then or that it's not warranted in your marriage but it's a factor.

Have you told you md about your feelings? About your physical symptoms?
Had your thyroid checked? Peri menopausal symptoms?
I'm reaching for straws, I know.

I have been married for 26 yrs. There have been yrs I loved H greater than others. But you have been two yrs in this drudgery. It's gotten better, but it's not fixed. I know few things that are worth working and worrying over for two yrs but a health marriage is one of them. Keep trying things.

ETA: I keep feeling like there is more to this than you are telling, either to us or to yourself. How much are you admitting to yourself about his treatment of you? I think you are angry and it's coming out as depression.
I still think the counselors office might be a safe place for you to vent.
I did most of the raising of my kids, also but it's a different thing if you both work and only one is raising kids and doing the sacrificing. His selfishness can burn through your love to the core. Especially if there is not even tenderness. It can also leave you hollow when he changes his actions because he understands it will hurt HIM if he doesn't. Not because he is sorry or has changed.

If this is the deal, you can't make a good decision without completely hashing this out. It would follow you even if you did divorce him. You could become bitter. Find a counselor, tonight.

No one ever said marriage was easy. It is hard work and compromises.
I think it sounds like your is worth the effort. No marriage is perfect. Ok maybe one here and there but I question those. We all have issues to work on. Have you tried marriage counseling?

Robin M. means you will find someone else and have the same issues once the honeymoon period wears off.

I agree with that, to a degree. But I do believe that not everyone is well-suited.

This will hurt your child, so you have to weigh her happiness over yours. Could you wait, as someone suggested? That's a long time to wait, I know.

Are you at all attracted to him? Is there nothing that could potentially be rekindled?

You are in a tough situation; if there were no kid it would be a no-brainer.

Sometimes love/lust can be rekindled. Other than that, I don't know what to tell you.

Good luck.

I left my marriage to salvage what was left of myself, not to find myself. My child was barely a year old but I knew it was time to create a healthier living environment and preserve my sanity. Recently, a friend of mine held on for the sake of her child and when that child turned 18, the husband stepped out and openly flaunted women in her face. So, he apparently had an agenda. After close to 15 plus years of marriage, they are on track to finalizing their divorce. Now my friend is devastated because she held on for the child's sake, but was not true to herself, wants, desires, and emotional needs. I share these stories to say, You have to follow your heart and mind when you are calm and rational and embrace all of you with no regrets. People change and that includes you.

I read both posts and I still can't figure out exactly what it is you want.
I have a friend whose wife has battled chronic debilitating depression all her life.
She gets spells every so often where she sits almost in a catatonic unresponsive state for hours on end.
She's not happy.
She's NEVER happy.
Her husband loves her and would like her to be happy.
If he thought for a moment that a divorce would make her happy he'd agree with going ahead with one - but it wouldn't make her any happier than she is now and he worries what she would do if she were truly on her own.
She might be incapable of being happy.
As it is she plans for a divorce.
She puts money away and has her escape plan in place.
Their son is away in college (he could not wait to get away from home) and their daughter is either in high school or in college.
Neither child is all that happy with what is going on with their mother and they really don't like how their father is treated in their parents relationship.
I almost think she's got some sort of bi-polar condition but without any of the highs.
I don't know if there is a proper name for it.
Is it possible that you might have some sort of not as severe version of that?
What would the harm be in getting a psych evaluation?

try a marriage retreat. many churches give them and they help you to work on marriage and to find each other again.

another thought is to come up with a list of things you both as a family want to get done each week/day. so possibly it's dishes, trash, dusting, sweeping, getting kids lunches packed and getting kids out the door,cooking. write the list out TOGETHER and decide each week or day who will be doing what. both of you work so i'm assuming this list of things should be split equally. both say what you enjoy or dont mind doing and do those and then divvy up the ones that no one likes to do. if kids are old enough have them doing a few as well. this way no one has to be upset that no one knew what they could be doing to help out. if they dont do their chores just leave it and they will soon realize that no one can eat if the dishes arent done. never harp on the other or remind them.

i too give my hubby affection all day long but he never initiated affection on hi own. he claims its because he doesnt want to get all excited if nothings going to "happen". my theory is that for us woman nothing is going to "happen" if i dont get any affection during the day, ya know. but men dont always understand that. he may need another man to explain that to him. when we explain it the whole thing comes across as condescending.

it's hard to get out of this whole and the only thing to do is to change your outlook and view. you must decide to feel different. you will have to force it at first and it would really help if he were doing the same thing at the same time but if he's not you still can. typically when one person changes the other will follow.

You either want to work on your marriage or you don't. Why stay married to someone where all you have in common is a child? You think your kid doesn't know you are unhappy with their dad?

In your previous post, you stated that if you wouldn't even date your husband if you met him now as a single. Wow - again - why stay married?

There's plenty of information on the interwebs about rekindling your marriage, which means putting your marriage and your partner first. But it doesn't sound like you want to rekindle that romance.

I feel sorry for the 3 of you.

Hi, Boss:

What is happening is: I understand how you must be feeling right now. What I am experiencing is similar to what you are describing.

You need to start thinking about what is going on with you.

Let me see if this can help you identify your thinking and feeling. Here is the anger control chain:
1. What are your triggers---External (outside of yourself) and Internal (physiological feelings)
2. What are your cues (Physical Signals)
3. Anger Reducers (Count backwards, deep breathing, and pleasant imagery)
4. Reminders (Positive self talk and/or Self instructional talk)
5. Thinking Ahead (Short-term Consequences and Long-term Consequences)
6. Self-Evaluation (Self-Coaching and/or Self-Rewarding)

Yes, you need to tell him what you need from him.

Men have linear thinking, they like to solve problems. When you share your feelings with your husband, he is going to try to fix the problem.
You need to tell him that you need him to understand what you are saying, not make decisions for you.

I am noticing the same thing when I talked to men. I have to stop them when they start making assessments and telling me what I need to do.
I stop them on the word that they are using is not describing what I am saying.

Tell him how you feel, Tell him what you need. It takes time to have him understand what it is you need.

If you learn about yourself and ask for what you need, the relationship will improve.

Good luck.
D.