Trouble in the Neighborhood

Just to confirm what the others said, you are not too strict. And 2:30 a.m. is too late for children to be out.

No you are not, these other children will several years be the one's that you hear about at school, or heaven help us read about in the paper. They are the ones that will end up in gangs or out doing some thing that the parents in the end will have to pay for because of the damage done by them. Let her see some of the things on the local new's and let her hear from some police what they think of these arrangements with the other children.

Our street has lots of kids as well. My twins are 9 and school nights it's in by 7:30 to do homework and shower. As for the 2:30 in the morning, no that is not ok. That is bothersome to soooo many people. The 10p, if it's every once in a while, yes let her be out there and yes, that means you have to be out there too and thats o.k. If it's during the week and you have to work then you just have to explain to her that you have to get up for work and it's time to come in, but if it's a weekend or during the week and you don't work, then sometimes let her do it and it will make her feel better and that she's not the odd one out and it won't be such an issue.

Hi K..
I think this is a wonderful time to talk to your daughter about peer pressure! I have told my kids many times that it starts when you are a kid, and follows you even when you are an adult.
Bedtime and all other rules aside, your daughter needs some coaching in how to recognize why this situation isn't good for her. These parents probably think, "Well I am in my own yard, so if I want to party or whatever it's no big deal." But when one of the children running around at night gets hurt, who is going to be safe to drive? Who is going to be able to tell someone what happened? There are so many other factors. Teach your daughter about what makes you uncomfortable about the situation and then ask her what she would do if you weren't there with her and all of this was going on. I know 11 might seem young, but when my nephew was about that age he went to a birthday party for a kid in his class. The parents had provided alcohol for the party! He knew enough to say, "This isn't for me." and he got the kids that were willing to leave and walked several blocks to my house to ask me for a rides home.
I know the whole situation is a huge annoyance, but I also see it as a teachable moment for your child. This is where they learn to analyse, recognize, and decide what is right for them.
Good luck!
Christi

Your rules are fine...for YOUR house. I see nothing wrong with children hanging out with their friends in their own backyard, at any time. They were not vandalizing or running through the streets, just enjoying each other AT HOME. It happens. Besides, you don't know the details of these children's personalities and the dynamic in their home. When I was a kid, I had no specific bed time, especially at around 10 or 11. I was in bed before midnight, but 10pm is not too late for children to be out front with their parents. It sounds to me like their evening socializing just went a little long, and that's okay. If you live in what you consider a "safe" neighborhood, that is perfectly reasonable.

That said, just tell your daughter that you have different ideas of how to do things, but don't make the others out to be bad guys.

I have a similar situation (although our children in the area are younger age range 3-9). On weekends we all get together and hang out. My husband and I aren't big drinkers but we have indulged before...but we ALWAYS put our daughter to bed at her bed time 8:30. Our neighbors let their kids stay up too and our daughter (who is 4) gets upset because she has to go in and her friends get to stay and play. First I don't understand why they don't just put their children to bed at least. One parent can do that and the other can still mingle OR if they're right out in their front yard they can put the kids to bed and still hang out.
I'm shocked when I go in and hear the next day that the kids (some of them 3yrs old!) are running around and playing until midnight or later. BUT...all parents are different. I personally wouldn't do it...you obviously don't agree with it...but they're not your kids. It sucks your daughter gets upset about it...but she's going to have to learn that all parents are different. She may get to do things that those kids don't and vice versa. Your rules are your rules and don't bend because everyone else has a different idea of what constitutes appropriate times to be upwith their kids.

.

My daughter is 15, no, we don't have locks and alarms on her windows....
I agree that 11 is young to be out very late playing. I am more lax on the exact bedtime but then again, my daughter is older, has a lot of outside activities, usually does not leave school until 6pm daily (cheerleading) and then we have to fit in the driver's ed training time, etc so we are routinely no home until 9.

Our daughter is a good kid and we COMMUNICATE a LOT about EVERYTHING. She knows she can confide in us and we support her.

That said, most places have a curfew and if curfew is being broken, then the local authorities take care of the situation. In Plano/Allen, the curfew is 11pm on weeknights and midnight on weekends.

Check your local ordinances and see if your town has something similar.

I've been on both sides of the street:

1) Coming back from overseas:
- Culture change: In Italy our 5-7 year old would eat dinner with us from 10-11pm out at restaurants (with hundreds of other kids also all eating dinner with their parents out) and then be playing in the piazzas and fountains with the other kids. So dinner from 10-11, playing with neighbors from 11-12/1, and then bedtime around 130/200am. Of course, in S.Italy everyone NAPS for several hours in the afternoon.
- Days and nights being reversed.
Both of these situs make it so that it takes a couple weeks of being home before our clocks are reset as well as cultural expectations. Kiddo is absolutely forlorn that there are no kids to play with at midnight for the first WEEK.

2) Observatory Time
- We homeschool... so if we're doing a unit on space, we spend a significant time up at the local observatory (we've done 2 units on space science so far). We usually try and do these units in the spring, because up in Seattle, it doesn't get dark until after 10pm in the summer. But springtime means that we're still OUT until 10-11pm. Ditto, we're often in our sleepingbags with our telescope quite late. In it's own way our little scope is as much fun as the enormous one that the university uses.

3) Arts & Culture
- We go to a lot of plays, operas, & concerts. Most of which we get home right around midnight.

4) Summertime
- As I mentioned a bit ago... it doesn't get dark in seattle until after 10pm. In the summer... that bumps bedtime in our house to 11pm... in large part because kiddo is playing with friends until twilight.

5) Sleepovers
- We DO have backyard "camp out" sleepovers. RARELY. But we do have them.

Now... we don't live in a "family" or "quiet" neighborhood (we live right by the university). We ALSO teach common courtesy (aka, we don't allow loud shenanigans that are going to disturb the neighbors). In our city, noise ordinances don't start until midnight, and on the weekends it's 2am. We are NEVER noisy past the ordinance (well once, but a bunch of my scout sniper friends were on layover from Afghanistan, but that wasn't kid related.. kiddo was up in bed, that was MY fault... and their hours were all messed up).

Regardless of the fact that we're not noisy in general, we've been "spoken to" about, not the noise (we're typically quiet, ESP compared with the college parties that happen every night of the week... were 4 blocks from frat row, and live on a street that's half college rentals and half retired folks... peculiar mix), anyhow it's not the noise people bug us about but that we're ruining kiddo's life and or expectations by not having him in bed by the time OTHER people's kids are in bed. Yeah. The opera and the observatory are terrible influences we need to keep our kids away from at all costs.

The point being that even though we're doing what we feel is best for our family, others not only disagree... but tell us what lousy parents we are. It takes both practice and hutzpah to smile, nod, and ignore. We're doing what's best for OUR family. The only way we're disturbing others, is that we're different. As I said, we're not noisy, just UP. I've had people knock on my door while we're playing CLUE inside at 3am because it's not 3am but 10am according to where we've just spent the past 3 months in Rome, and tell us that our son should be in bed. Same token, you're doing what you feel is best for YOUR family. People live differently. I don't feel the need to educate others, but it IS something that we talk about with our son. People live differently, and have different rules and expectation in their families.

In the winter, we're the folks on the other side of the street... because we're usually in bed by 6pm-7pm. In the winter, we spend most of our time up a mountain. We're up by 4 or 5am and out the door not that much later. Home about 12 hours later, fed and in bed as soon as we can be.

The same rule goes. His neighborhood friends are all up and doing stuff while he's in bed (his friends from the mountains are passed out about the same time we are). BUT we don't live our lives based on what other people do. We are CONSIDERATE of others, but we don't live according to their rules.

Not only are your right to impose a curfew on your daughter but you are right on the mark, whether your know it or not, to keep your daughter away from the adults that are drinking and behaving irresponsibly. A lot of damage can be done to your daughter's psyche and personal safety in that kind of environment.

Keep on doing what you are doing. Your daughter may not appreciate the limits and boundaries that you are imposing now but, once she becomes older and gets out into the world and see what messes people can make of their lives and others, she will be thankful for all that you are doing.

I also agree that your rules are perfectly reasonable.

Have you told the 2:30am noisy neighbors to quiet down? My daughter is a light sleeper, so any neighbor noise after 10:30pm I take care of it right away. Where we live there is also a law no noise (either outside or in the house) over a certain amount after 10pm. Our previous neighbor was horrible and like your neighbors her daughter (who was around 11) was out at all hours of the night and had friends outside loudly talking outside. Granted our house is very close to theirs but still it is rude. I would always talk to them first to quiet down (usually around 11pm), and if I had to go out a second time I would say quiet down or I will call the police. Well I would have to call the police 2 times a week because they would just get louder and start drinking (11 year old drinking beer). Sometimes mom was around other times not... the worst is when they had family over (which I am all for having family gatherings) but mid-week, and it being 11pm they were loud, screaming, playing basketball, drinking beer... the police came and broke it up. It is fine if it is once in a blue moon, I let me daughter stay up later for special events but I hate being noisy when others are sleeping. Thankfully we have a new neighbor who is so nice and being a bachelor does get loud but never past 10pm.

Anyway I think calling in the authorities, this may affect the relationships you have with neighbors but for me if I asked them nicely to not break the law twice but they ignore it then I do not want a relationship with them. If you do not want to talk to them just call the police next time, there is probably some quiet law or maybe even a curfew.

k

If it were me and I had noises waking me up at 2:30am, I'd be calling the police about a noise disturbance and then let them handle it.

YOU are a TRUE parent! Congratulations! A rare breed today! May God Bless you and your family! You are correct in your rules of home and safety! Our society has become so confused, that children are not being raised by their parents! I have a strict schedule also and my girls are only 5 & 8, but I already know that I will alter it as they grow, but it will remain in effect till they are truly grown and out of our house-on their own! Our neighbors and 1/2 the street are exactly like yours! They are so loud, it does keep us up; and no asking stops them! Often I have to call the P.D. on disturbing the peace; and they stop for 1/2 an hour and start right up! I pray that all moms & dads, realize this is part of the destruction of todays society that They are contributing to! Respect & manners are such a rarity today! But I too am persistent and teach my children it all. I wish you's the very best in life!
Sincerely,
Kathy N.
PS: Do you live in Margate too?

I agree with all who say to stick to your personal rules but consider relaxing them on the weekends or over the summer.

We're working parents with small kids, so getting them to sleep during the week is critical, but we're more lax on the weekend - especially in the summers now that Indiana observes day light savings. In late June, it's literally still light close to 10pm which makes getting kids to sleep a little more difficult.

At 11, I think you're completely justified in having her have strict rules most of the time. I also think, if she were my child, that I'd be more flexible on the weekends as long as you believe the activities are innocent, the supervision is adequate, and there are no conflicts with her needing to be in bed by a certain time.

As far as the 2:30 am thing - I'm with the person who said they'd call the police or at least go out there (if you know the kids well) and ask them to be quiet as they've awoken your house.

Good luck.

I am sure there are noise laws in your community and I am positive that they do not allow bothersome noise at 2:30 am!! Call the police and they will handle it without your having to get involved.
As to the rules that you have set up for your daughter, they seem perfectly reasonable to me. You can use the old line that my Dad used on me when I complained about "everyone else gets to do it " . "If everyone else were jumping off the bridge with a big rock tied to their neck, would you want to do that too?"
But seriously...stick to your guns....it isn't your job to make your daughter happy...and be her best friend...it is your job to be there to provide structure and boundaries for her and raise her to be the very best person she can be!!

I like your rules and I wouldn't change them becasue of your unruly neighbors. where I live after I think 10 and neighbors are making a lot of noise for at least 30 min you can call the police, they come and tell them they need to go in and quiet down. I don't know about talking tot hem becasue they both think it's ok but maybe it will help if you ask them to. I do think the kids outside at 2AM is really bad and I would call CPS.

I am going to respond without looking at what others are saying about this situation.

Personally, our group of friends do get together and hang out at each others houses sometimes until late at night. Yes, we do drink. And yes, our kids run around a play together during this time.

Are they unsupervised - NO. We do pay attention to what they are doing. Do we hover over them, no.

Most of the time by late in the evening, the kids have come inside and are playing games or watching a movie.

I see nothing wrong with friends and/or neighbors getting together and hanging out like this. And I see nothing wrong with kids staying up late when it is not a school night.

I do have problems with it when the children are not watched properly, especially when it is because the adult(s) are so sloshed they don't even remember the kids are with them.

Why don't you join them, at least for a little while. You don't have to drink if you choose not to. At least you are right there at your house when you decide to go home.

Stick to your guns and put alarms on your daughters windows. :-)

I often tell my kids that although OTHER kids do stuff, or are allowed to do stuff... WE don't. At 11 she is probibly starting to feel the peer pressure thing... You are not overprotective...

I could see being a little lax on weekends IF you are in the yard keeping watch... But now days with kids running wild under who knows what kinds of influences we mothers need to protect our daughters and sons innocence...

Good luck... Stick to the rules... Maybe tell her that they will be negotiable when she turns 16 lol...:-)

You're not too strict. Your rules are perfectly reasonable for her age. I also have a daughter turning 11 this summer. You're teaching her your values, getting a good night's rest for school is very important. I agree with the other poster who said to let her play outside longer in the summer time, but I would be out there in my front yard too after dark, especially if the other adults are drinking. The 2:30 am noise was probably sleepover antics, I would let it go, unless it becomes a regular thing.

OK I read some of the responses. I don't think you are too strict for your house. But unless the neighbors are fall out drunk, and the children safety is compromised then who is to judge bad parenting. You don't socialize the same way as your neighbor. That is fine, as long as everybody respects everyone elses rights. I agree with 2:30 in the morning being too late for the kids to be out & noisy as there are neighbors. I am surprise the police didn't come by on that.
I am a neighbor that has sat out with neighbors, not reguraly, but yes we had drinks. We weren't loud but there were some bursts of laugher. And we knew exactly where and what the kids were doing. Usually, they were in one or the others house, or split amongst, but sometimes they would be out playing soccer or basketball, not up and down the street. It would end at a reasonable hour. If we were later we would go inside but usually we ended the night between 10-12. It was a social time for parents and the kids, were most definitely watched and not a nuisance to neighbors.
Oh, just a note, you don't have to drink to get together with neighbors. It is definitely more of the adult socialization while watching the kids as they socialize. I called it a cheap night out!!

You are not too strict. Keep up the great job you are doing as a concerned and reasonable parent. Continue to follow your instinct and your heart. It's very hard to be a great parent who does have rules and boundaries in place. Your daughter may not understand now, but she will appreciate the type of parenting you are practicing now when she's older & especially when/if she becomes a mother.

Noooo you are NOT too strict! You're definitly doing the right thing. Stick to your guns & don't give in. She'll come to appreciate it when she's older & the other kids are possibly getting into trouble (not saying they WILL but there's obviously no discipline there). Just explain to your daughter that you just don't allow running around at night that you care very much about her safety & although she sees other kids running pellmell & wreaking havoc at all hours, you choose to raise her w/better respect of others. Hope this helps & although you may not want to get involved, you could always drop an anonymous tip to the proper authorities about the neighbors bad parenting skills which puts their children obviously at risk. you can always try to video tape the goings on if possible as backup proof. Good luck!!

There's a curfew in most cities that makes it illegal for children under a certain age to be on the streets after a certain time. On the street is on the street irregardless of whether the parents are watching or not. Unless the parents are running the streets with them, they are breaking curfew. Those same children will be the ones getting into trouble in a few years because they are bored on top of being unsupervised. You are right not to let your daughter hang with them and to have a routine for her to follow. If you don't instill YOUR values on her someone else will teach her theirs & you will have nothing but heartache & trouble.

I have to say that I read the other peoples thoughts an have to say...I think you are bringing you child up GREAT! I know she might not like the rules as we didn't like them when our mom told us to come inside at a certain time. I have to say some people took your posting to heart if they are drinkers and I just want to say that your not talking about everyone that drinks your just expalining what you witness from your own home. I have a 4 month old and my husband had his buddys over and I was annoyed for the first time with the volume and being we live in a nice neighborhood I felt bad about the noise they were making. I think people should have respect for others and esp. there neighbors since you have to live by them for how ever long. I am glad you had a talk with your little one and are keeping her safe, you hear about so many children getting hurt and everything it is best to protect then to lose forever. I worked in the media and so many children and parents that I was soo mad because so many things can be prevented. Keep up the great work and I hope to be like that with my son and future children. BTW Mother Really Did Know Best...just took me 24 years to figure that out!

it seems like in middle school we would stay up till all hrs of the night. i dont ever remember the parents drinking or being outside at those hours. i agree with you on what boundarys you have set with your daughter. just because they are doing it dosent make it right for your family. good luck.

Good morning K.. I say stick to you guns and insist that your children live by your rules. You are the one that will suffer concequenses if something goes wrong if you bend to the rules of others. Children must learn guide lines and it is apparent that the families are not teaching the children what is appropriate and what is not. I couldn't imagine children being out at 2:30 in the morning playing. Bad parenting doesn't even begin to describe it. If my children were out at that hour my house had better be on fire. Follow your head. You are on the right track.

L.

You sound absolutely reasonable. Just because other people are allowing this horrible behavior, does not make it right or safe. My neighborhood is also full of families with kids. They often play outside on weekends until 8 or 9, then everyone inside. I don't know where you live, but in our area, there are noise ordinances that do not allow loud behavior past a certain time (differs on weekends). Stick to your guns.

I think you are 100% right... We don't have kids to living next to us, so we don't have those same issues... However, I just think kids shouldn't be running around all times of the night. There is a time and place for all things.
Stick to "your" rules.

Updated

I think you are 100% right... We don't have kids living next to us, so we don't have those same issues... However, I just think kids shouldn't be running around all times of the night. There is a time and place for all things.
Stick to "your" rules.

It seems alot of parents don't mind "partying" around their kids all the time. I get the same mess from my children. I do not give in. I agree that it is lax parenting and I do not agree that children should be taught that life is one big party. Stick to your guns. Also, if there is loud and sustained noise after 10:00 p.m. and you live in the city, you can call the cops. I do not know if the call is anomymous (sp.) so if the neighbors found out it was you it may create bad feelings. I am a fellow "party pooper" and try to "live it up" when my children are not around (which I think is once a year for 5 minutes.)

No you are most definitely not too strict. In fact, you give her lots of time on the weekends. Kids need lots of sleep to grow and mature correctly so having her in bed at a reasonable time on school nights is super important. I think this is a perfect time for her to learn the lesson that the crowd doesn't set the pace for her life. Just because someone else is doing something doesn't mean you can or should. You are giving her a great sense of who she is and that others don't dictate what she does. Good job mom!

Personally, I agree with you. IT sounds like you are in my neighborhood! I don't think it is too much to expect at all. There is a neighbor that has lots of people over every weekend 10-15 cars too and the kids will run up and down the street screaming and yelling and playing till all hours of the night. This family has younger children too, under the age of 8 and even on school nights, the kids will be running amock outside. the parents have been asked to help the kids to keep it down and sadly they don't seem to think there is anything wrong with it. They too stand outsie in their garage, watching the kids play, drinking beer and creating their own noise! What can you do, short of calling the police to complain.
Good luck,
L.

Yourdoing a wonderful job!! There is no reason for an 11 yr old to be out past 10, or out at 2:30 am. That is unfit parenting in my book. It must be hard I am sure, but your daughter will grow to apprecaite the boundries when she's older. Make sure to point out to her why it's so dangerous for this behavior to continue. Maybe that will help ease her a bit about feeling left out. Sorry you have to go thry this, BUT GOOD JOB MOM!!!

I can just hear my momma now, teaching independence by saying, "If they all jumped off a cliff, would you do it, too?" LOL Our daughter is only 4, so this is not really an issue - yet. She, like her momma, is a nightowl, going to bed usually between 10 and midnight most nights because of events we participate in, HOWEVER, we are also late risers - no school or preschool to deal with. There are young boys in our neighborhood, though, who enjoy a nice rousing game of hide-and-seek after dark. They range in age from I'd say 9 or 10 to mid teens. I've seen them out playing as late as 11 or after on school nights and wonder if their parents really don't care enough about them to have them in bed at such a late hour (knowing they have to get up early for school). That, plus the fact that they have scared the daylights out of me hiding behind our cars, trash cans, etc., and taking the dog for a walk is always an adventure! My husband says, "They're just boys getting some energy out and they're not being destructive."

I, for one, do not think you're being too strict. A routine is the best thing you can do for your children, and caring enough about your child to see that they eat right, have a roof over their heads, go to school and get enough rest is not being mean - it's being a responsible parent. My mom was strict with us and would say, "It's okay, you can hate me for it, after all, I'm you mom, NOT your friend! We'll be friends when you're grown. You'll thank me for it then." (I just HATE when my mom is right, LOL) And yes, I was thankful for it when I went off to college and had no one to set the rules for me except myself.