Two Little kids...two Very Different temperamets...one Super Easy, One Hard

Why on earth would it be poor parenting to splash your daughter in the face to show her what it is like??? Have you ever heard of biting the biter so they know how it feels?

Sounds to me like Little Miss is ruling the roost. Don't you dare say to me "I don't want to see you right now", she'd be going into a good long timeout without that food she demanded. Heck, she might even get spanked for that at our house.

I think your reward chart is a good idea, but you also need to come down hard when her behavior is unacceptable.

M

My girls are just about 3 years apart in age but a bit older than your children. The older child has a personality that is more challenging *for us* than the younger child. Our oldest has selfish tendencies, she can be bossy and she will exaggerate when it comes to her sister (she bumped into me turns into she shoved me and wants me to fall). Our youngest is stubborn and we are having some eating challenges with her and she gets grumpy and mean when she is tired. So, you know, different kids, different issues.

We have found that a big source of conflict for our oldest is that she feels like her sister "never gets in trouble" and she says her sister doesn't have to do as much which "isn't fair." So we find that we have to remind her that she is 3 years older and so different rules apply to her. We end up saying things like, when your sister is six she will have to study spelling words but right now she is three. Or when you were at school your sister had a timeout for pushing the dog. We acknowledge her feelings and gently remind her that she and her sister aren't going to be dealt with in the exact same manner.

We tried a rewards chart for behavior (we actually had a treasure box with small toys, etc. in it and then if they got 6 stickers a week they could pick a prize). It worked for the younger child but not the older and one. Taking away privileges or making her earn them is what works for the older one.

Try the rewards chart. It might help.

Welcome to the world of parenting and children. Each child has their own personality and you are experiencing it first hand. Besides that, you just had a third enter into the mix. The oldest one is jockeying for attention and doing more "spirited" things to get it.

I can relate to the difference in children as my son was your daughter and my daughter is your son. When I was in hospital with my daughter, I got use to her and her scent and when I got back home, I had to readjust to my son, his scent and his actions. It took about three weeks at home for the adjustment.

Don't forget to find time for the two of you without the children. The children have needs but so do you two. You got to make sure the husband and wife are connected or the rest falls apart. Know each other so that when they do leave the nest you two are not strangers looking at each other and wondering who the he## you are.

the other S.

I could have written this post myself when my kids were that age! My oldest is just like your daughter, and my middle child is just like your son. They are now 12 and 8, and things are much the same. My daughter is still jealous of her brother, and can be quite mean to him.

The best advice I can offer you (and what I wish I would have done) is to not let your daughter know that you find her behavior annoying. Praise her and reward her for good behavior, but try to ignore the negative seeking behavior as much as possible. If she is verbally mean to her brother, just scoop him up and comfort him while completely ignoring her. Eventually, she'll see that behaving that way is not having the desired effect-your attention.

I think the reward chart would work well. I wouldn't use sweets, but rather one-on-one time with mom or dad as a reward. Set it up with just a few things for her to work on (being kind to little brother, not whining, listening the first time) Give smaller daily rewards, and then a larger weekly reward if she's earned it. Maybe a board game or extra books at bedtime for the daily reward, and then an outing to the library or the park with just her and mom or dad as the weekly reward.

If you do have to give her a consequence, such as when she hurts her brother, don't let her think it's made you mad. Let her know you are sad for her brother, and for her because now she will have to suffer a consequence. Say "This is so sad. It's so sad that you now have to sit in time-out instead of playing outside" Put it all back on her so that she sees that she's the one suffering the ill-effects of her poor choice.

I highly recommend the Love and Logic program. I think it works well with younger kids. It's effectiveness wears off when they get into the tween/teen years, but it worked very well for my spirited dd for many years.

You can probably find out enough about it from their website without having to purchase the book. You might also check your library to see if they have the book.
http://www.loveandlogic.com/

Good luck!

What was your daughter like at two and a half -- the age your son is now?

Was she as demanding as she is now, or was she mellower?

Just a thought: When your son is the age that your daughter is now, he may no longer be so mellow. So don't think of any of this, your daughter's behavior or your son's, as a fixed indicator of personality. That's an important starting point.

You also mention only briefly that you have a brand new baby (congrats!). Isn't it possible that her grumpiness with her brother is actually a reaction not to him as much as to the new baby? An infant that young is either constantly in someone's arms or asleep; she knows she can't get a rise out of a mere baby; but a toddler brother will react to her and she is longing for a reaction, so she may be taking out her jealousy of the baby on her toddler brother. In other words -- this may not be just about jealous of her brother but jealousy over the baby as well. She's got two more appealing little humans to share you with and she knows it well.

She is at an age where kids assert themselves as individuals. Add two younger siblings, one new, into the mix, and the assertion can take these kinds of negative turns. Are you familiar with the idea "negative attention"? Young kids do not really distinguish between positive attention (praise, etc.) and negative attention (being yelled at or disciplined). They often will act out just to get ANY attention and if it's negative that still fulfills some need for them. So: React less. Ignore more.

And be SURE you do things with her, all alone, and that your husband does too. You may be right that you are both focusing on your cuddly toddler and new baby much more than on her, especially when her behavior isn't nice. But that's when you have to push through the natural inclination to turn to the sweeter kid first -- you have to double down on more individual attention for her, the kid who's not sweet just now. Do things with her that are age-appropriate, things that "you can do because you're such a big girl." Get her out of the house and away from her siblings on a regular basis. Don't let her hear all the time, "We can't go there/do that/attend that because your brother has to nap at that time of day/the baby is too small to go" etc. I have seen so many families with two kids -- and especially families with three or more -- where the youngest child's schedule dominates everything for years and the oldest child always hears "we can't because the baby can't do that yet" -- please watch for that because it's more common than you realize.

Can you and your husband work out a schedule where one of you goes with her, just her, to a regular class like Music Together or Kindermusik or any class at a local rec center for kids her age? Can you get your husband to turn up to volunteer at or just attend an event at the preschool, especially unexpectedly during the week to surprise her? Find ways to give her extra attention and don't make that attention contingent on her "being good" or "being nice to your brother." She needs to know that she gets positive attention without strings at times, especially right now with an infant in the house, who gets attention 24-7 for doing nothing, in her eyes.

A reward chart? Maybe. But what will be the specific, concrete actions for which she gets rewards? A reward chart should be rewards for doing certain things, not rewards for NOT doing certain things. What discipline do you have in place for when she kicks or hits her brother? Is it swift, consistently the same every time, and does it remove something she really hates to lose? Are you constantly telling her "don't do x" and not telling her, "You did a good job on Y?" Are you distracting and redirecting immediately and firmly when she is on the brink of acting out -- and do you recognize when she's on that brink, or does behavior have to get to an actual grab or push before you realize it's happening?

Just some things to consider. She is in a tough place right now and it's not about permanent temperament, possibly, so much as a lot of jealousy and a feeling that she is not as big a deal to anyone as the baby and her cuddly brother. That's not an excuse for her -- she can't behave certain ways, period, jealousy or not --but it does explain things. Most of all - do not ever, ever let her hear you compare her to her brother. "He shared with you, he always shares" etc. will only make her worse, not better -- she will figure she needs to differentiate herself from him and if he shares, well, she won't be like him.....

Read some good parenting books that deal with siblings and sibling jealousies and the role of the oldest child. That may help a lot.

And you know that the water in the face act your husband did was "poor parenting" as you note, but does HE know that fully and will he commit to not doing that? It's not a huge leap from that to "You hit your brother so he gets to hit YOU so you know what it feels like!" and that sets a terrible precedent. I can see getting so frustrated in the moment I'd splash a kid like that too but I hope your husband fully gets why he can't do that again.

My oldest can be like this too and what has worked best is when we are super positive with her and offer tons of empathy. We praise her when she is being good and do our best to not react in an emotional way to the bad. It really helps make her motivated to behave more appropriately. Lots of love, hugs, high fives, noticing when she's quiet and helpful. We had to work on making sure our daughter was sleeping well also.

Currently, we are working on a very low sugar diet now to see if that helps her regulate her mood better, since she still has to work on her attitude and coping skills. I wouldn't reward with sweets, in other words. I have a feeling that causes a lot of our issues around here. Another mother was saying that her son is a mean child whenever he has sugar. He is sweet as can be when his diet is clean.

Routine also has helped us tremendously. If my daughter knows what is going on, she feels more in control of herself. She also feeds off of other people's tension. So I try to act positive and very stress-free, even when I'm feeling stressed. Not easy, but I put a smile on and do my best to lighten up.

Also, some kids are empathetic at an early age and some need more training. My daughter is 10 now and is so much better about being generous and kind to the whole family. It gets better!! :)

Sounds like my first two. My second, son, is super cuddly and sweet. He takes himself off to sleep when tired, will play for hours by himself without concern or problem.

My oldest? She is spirited. She complains a lot. She needs to run, and run, and run. She wants everything now, yet will save anything special for so long it will go bad. She is tiring.

In any case. Positive attention. This is your best friend. Also, you need to randomly shows her affection, just for being. These are two very powerful weapons.

Also. It's really important that you don't take sides. Read "siblings without rivalry." You need to start saying, I don't care who started it, I care about who participates!

21 months between my two oldest. It was really hard when they were 2 and 4.

Hang in there. It all sounds perfectly normal to me. Different kids do have different temperaments, you might want to try to see the positive in your daughter..the constant nagging,..persistence, etc.

Also, try to not see the bullying. Instead, help teach her the tricks to dealing with a difficult 2 year old. Trading, sharing, turn taking, distractions, ignoring. Remember, every moment is a teaching moment. And walk away when you want to scream :-)

Yes -- give her as much attention as you possibly can. Make sure she has special one-on-one time without her siblings around.

My oldest was like this, and it was hard not to be annoyed with him a lot. Now that all my kids are grown, I recall this with sadness. He was just a little thing, begging for attention in a not very appealing way. I wish I could do it over again and scoop him up and give him the attention he craved. (Not that I never did, but not as much as he needed.)

You are already feeling sadness about your and your husband's response to her more challenging personality. You will feel sadder down the line when it's too late to give her what she needs.

You don't need rewards charts -- just fun and games and love. You won't be able to do it all the time, but step it up. I guarantee you she is feeling your and your husband's annoyance towards her.

We have a 6 year old daughter who is very similar and have learned from experience that if you can't nip it in the bud, it will only get worse. We are reading the book, "Setting Limits With Your Strong-Willed Child" by Robert J. MacKenzie and it has been a lifesaver. I really recommend it. The book really helps put things in perspective. In a nutshell, your daughter was born with a strong-willed temperament while your son has a compliant temperament. If you ask your son to go do xyz, he will most likely comply while your daughter will not unless your actions are in line with your words. For example, if I am sitting on the couch and ASK my daughter to go brush her teeth, it will NEVER happen. Before, I would get frustrated and angry because she was being so defiant. This book has taught me that I have to get up, walk her to (at least) the stairs or (most likely) the bathroom and say (in a firm but calm voice) "You need to brush your teeth right now." If she doesn't comply, then I pair the command with a consequence ("You need to brush your teeth right now. If you do not, you will have to take a time out").

The book explains that strong-willed children need to learn through experiencing the consequences. That are little scientific researchers conducting their experiments on us. Framing it as a learning style has helped so much. Two weeks ago, she had a 2 hour tantrum at 3:30am because she wanted me to walk her back to bed instead of her father (even though our family had previously agreed that we would now be rotating which parent does this). We both wanted to just give in because it was 3am! But we stuck with it, put her in time out, etc. Granted, we were all exhausted the next day, but she now doesn't fuss at all and I can get a full night's rest! She had to go through that awful experience for her to learn that we were going to follow through.

One more thing to note, before we shifted to align our parenting to this style, we sat down as a family and listed family rules and consequences on poster boards so that she was crystal clear on the expectations and so that she would be more committed because she was a part of the process. We all signed it at the end...it is our contract!

Good luck - I hear you!

You know, you sound like such a wonderful mom, I'm not sure I can give you any advice at all.

You recognize that your kids have different temperaments, you recognize that most kids respond better to positive than negative reinforcement, you recognize that you're human and get frustrated sometimes.

One thought that does spring to mind is that your daughter sounds like an extrovert, who thrives on attention. Kids like that are sometimes prone to lashing out at siblings -- she's a star, and she doesn't like sharing the limelight. So if you can give her positive reinforcement for being an amazing, phenomenal big sister, she might respond really well to that.

The other thing is, kids really mirror our emotions. So, the next time your daughter gets out of line, try using a sad voice, not an angry voice. If you sound angry, she'll suddenly discover she's angry at you too. If you sound sad, it'll help her develop feelings of regret and remorse.

Finally, as I'm sure you know, some kids do need a certain amount of structure, consequences, and discipline. Where it's needed, I'm a fan of taking away toys and/or privileges, temporarily, and letting kids earn them back. That lets them have a some control over the situation (kids who are acting out often crave control), but they control it by being *good.* I used to get my son on the straight and narrow -- quickly and easily -- but putting one or two leading toys (not him, his toys) in time out.

Well... this might just be a very spirited child, or there may be something else going on. As the mother of a similar daughter, here's my question to you. Do any of the below sound familiar?

Constantly fidgets and squirms
Often leaves her seat in situations where sitting quietly is expected
Moves around constantly, often runs or climbs inappropriately
Talks excessively
Has difficulty playing quietly or relaxing
Is always “on the go,” as if driven by a motor
May have a quick temper or a “short fuse”
Acts without thinking
Blurts out answers in class without waiting to be called on or hear the whole question
Can’t wait for her turn in line or in games
Says the wrong thing at the wrong time
Often interrupts others
Intrudes on other people’s conversations or games
Inability to keep powerful emotions in check, resulting in angry outbursts or temper tantrums
Guesses, rather than taking time to solve a problem

If a lot of that sounds familiar, you may be looking at ADHD. It's not the end of the world, but you'll need to learn some strategies for dealing with such a child. They never will grow out of it (it's just the way the brain is wired), so parenting a child like this can be rather exhausting. Anyhow, I just thought I'd throw it out there. Also, if it were ADHD, you'd have seen signs/symptoms pretty much from day one.

I think you just have one extrovert and one introvert. I also think that you may be seeing the difference between 4 and 2 in some children. I would look up what behaviors are expected (not necessarily tolerated but normal) for each age group. You may find that you have to be more direct with her and not give her a lot of wiggle room. "I cannot understand whining. When you use your big girl voice, I will talk to you."

You should also bear in mind that she has 2 younger siblings now, including a new baby. She may be acting up to get more attention. Catch her being good and tell her so.

Try not to compare them as "good" and "bad". My SD crashes through life. My SS is quiet. They both have their pros and cons. They are who they are. If you know that your DD is hungry, then empower her. Give her cereal and milk and small bowls where she can reach them and tell her that big girls can get food for themselves in the morning. You want to guide her, not break her.

And also, she may be rude, but she may also be blunt. Little kids need to learn tact. That's why so many parents tell stories of being horrified when their kid says "why is that man fat?" or "Grandma smells funny" or whatever. Keep working on her to use her words nicely and praise her when she does. Maybe she just needs a few minutes when she comes in to transition. Give her that time, but teach her how to ask for it. I don't think bringing down the hammer on that comment is appropriate. Redirect her. Redirection doesn't end when they are 2. Teach her what TO do vs just what not to do, or you'll be forever playing catch up.

I have a spunky girl, too, and she might drive me nuts when she unloads the pantry, she is also quick and bright and can understand concepts I didn't expect her to. I keep nudging her on the "right path" and trying to find what works for HER. She is not her brother. She is not her sister. She is herself.

Make discipline fit the crime. If she splashed her brother, did he cry? Does she like to play in the tub? Then I would have her apologize and if she was still being mean after a warning, rinse her off and she's done.

Older kids do that with younger kids. They like having minons. Watch for when he has opinions of his own. My DD and her eldest child friend had a tiff because both are used to doing things their own way. It was a taste of their own medicine when they didn't like each other's POV...but they are still friends and worked it out. If she takes toys, not only remind her to share, but remind your son he can ask for a toy back and stick up for himself. Bossy older sisters are kind of "dawn of time"....says the bossy older sister. ;)

I don't think your husband splashing her with water was poor parenting at all. If she had to experience more of what she is dishing out, she may think twice. To me, it's natural consequences (get what you give) and teaching empathy. NOW she knows what it feels like.

Seems to me you have let her get away with entirely too much. The foundation of discipline is instilled in the first 2 - 3 years of life. Sounds like you missed that mark.

When she says something mean to her brother, or anyone else, she needs to be sent to her room. She can come out when she can make a sincere apology, even if that means she stays in her room for the entire day, night, and continues through the next day. If you back down, she will never stop.

You are providing her with excuses for her behavior. For example, you are attributing her behavior to the new baby. Stop making excuses for her - mean is mean - period. Bullying is bullying. Period. No excuses.

Here's an idea for you to try. Talk to your ped and tell him or her what is going on. Ask if you could have a play therapist come in and observe her. That way, you can get some expert advice on how to handle her better, before she causes problems with her little brother.

I really think this would help you.

Get the book 'the spirited child'.....it is amazing look inside your daughter. It will make you laugh, cry, and understand.

First, good for your husband to splash her back. Kids like these need to know what it feels like.

My 8yr old daughter is like yours, ugh. I got a book for my husband called strong fathers, strong daughters, if you can look into this it might help your husband understand the important role he plays in her growing up.

My rewards chart for good behavior with my very challenging daughter is all based on one on one time with me or daddy and we will let her pick any of these: a $5 toy at the store, a game w mom or dad, she can pick dinner, ice cream, playdate, extra time on iPad, special dessert after dinner. and anything else we can think of to manage her 'spirit'.

One thing I urge you to do is be consistent and mean what you say. Don't give in on a punishment.

Beset wishes