Views on Sharing Etc.

Most parents think their children can do no wrong & that everyone else's kids are little terrors :)
Our rule for sharing is simple. When we have guests, we share our toys unless there are "special" toys which we put away. If 2 children want the same toy, the child who has possession gets to keep the toy for 3 minutes, then has to give it to the other child who gets it for 3 minutes (use the oven timer or the one on your cell phone). Usually, the second child moves on before it's their turn. It's very good to teach your child to share at the earliest possible age that they understand the concept. Explain to her also that when she is with "babies", they may not know how to share so she can pick 3 toys that she doesn't have to share and play with those. An exception to our sharing rule is if guests are being unruly and not taking good care of your daughter's toys, in which case give them one warning and then put the toy up. I do the same thing with toys that either party are not willing to share. Good luck!

Well, I think it's going a bit far to say that you have "betrayed" your daughter. I'm not sure how a four year old having a bad weekend will damage her. I don't understand why you aren't having her share if it is the "right" thing to do. Is she an only child? Not to criticize, but if she doesn't have to share at home, she won't do well in the future. That would be more damaging than a rough weekend.
I'm sorry you had a bad time. Maybe next year you should just have a mom's weekend without the kids.

Mom,
I teach young children and I will say simply and honestly, if your child has never had to, or been taught to share a toy in a social/play setting in public or at home, you are doing her a disserve. She will need to learn how pretty quickly before starting pre-K or kindergarten. Sharing is a pretty basic learned social skill starting about age 3; the concept can be taught and understood without upset if done properly. If you have not taught her this I would work on doing so soon.The biting and tantrum at her age over sharing is not good and would be something I would have disciplined by remving her from the group for a talk and a time out. I also don't understand why you felt the need to "profusely apologize " to her for having to share with toddlers on your trip. Just curious is your child and only child? Either way I would suggest if you are able, to consider putting her in preschool or Pre-K pgm soon. It would also help her if you can set up some playdates w/ her friends (at home, the park etc ) with others her age so she can learn to better socialize with other children of similar age. You may also want to get some simple picture books from the library or book store on the topic. We have a rule at our school that if someone has a toy that another child would like to play with that the 2nd child has to ask the child who is using the toy nicely to come and get them when they are done with the toy. This is children age 2.5 to 5 and they all do this with little objection. If the teacher sees after 8-10 minutes the 1st child has not passed the toy on to the other child they are asked to please do so. Rarely do we have problems with sharing. I don't mean to offend you but your little girl is going out into the real world of school soon where children are expected to share, she will have a tough time if she can't. Hope this helps.

You did great, your child won't be harmed by a few days. Next trip your daughter will be 5, and she will be old enough for you to talk to her beforehand about these people's unfair expectations and how you and she will handle them.

You can also tell her that since she is the oldest, it is kindest to share with the babies.

If it is true that is good to teach our kids to share is also true that we have to teach them to wait their turn, it works both ways.
Next time ignore the looks and say: Sweety, she is playing with it now but when she finish she will give it to you". And if the moms give you the look say: "Don't worry, I know is not easy to teach kids to wait their turn, is almost as hard to teach them to share. But we are working on it and eventually "they" will get it."

I believe in teaching my children to share, after they have had their turn.

Teaching sharing is important because they believe everything is THEIRs. It's the only way to combat their MEness. To not teach them to share is kind of like saying "the whole wide world is yours RIGHT NOW." How are they going to learn about being a good neighbor, about treating others with respect, if they never learn there are any others? It's seriously the only way to combat the selfishness of the Ego.

A 4yo is not all that much older than a 3yo when it comes to sharing. I suggest that you accept that you did the best this time and plan to be more observant and proactive next year if you see that your daughter is expected to be different than the one who is just one year younger. These kids are in the same age group when it comes to an issue like sharing. They are close enough in age, it's best to have the same rules for all of them. A preschooler cannot understand the difference in expectations. Actually, when I think of sharing, I can't understand the difference.

Forgive yourself for falling into the "how great my kid is," trap. You've learned and you'll do much better next time.

Consider the possibility that the other mother knew her kids weren't good at sharing, which, by the way is normal, and so didn't expect them to share because she was doing the same thing, only in reverse, as you were. She may have not wanted for you to see that her kids couldn't share. She didn't want to deal with the temper tantrum if your daughter didn't share. She wanted to look like the "good" parent and wasn't thinking about what your daughter needed.

I suggest that at the beginning of next years trip you have some ready answers regarding your daughter in possible situations. The kids will be older. Think about your daughter and her developmental stage so that you can stand up for her. The key is knowing what is reasonable to expect from your daughter and advocate for her.

Perhaps be prepared to talk with your friend about what you're doing if it appears that your standing up for your daughter is causing tension. Talk about developmental stages and how the children are close enough in age that they have similar needs. Be careful to come across as concerned about all of the children and non-judgmental. Focus on helping all of the children feel comfortable while acknowledging that there has to be a give and take amongst all of the children.

Remember, this was a learning experience for you. You hadn't had this experience before. Also you were with good friends with whom your relationship is involving because of the addition of children. You did the best you could. Now, you've learned and are looking for a better way. Please do not be hard on yourself. As you said, no harm was done. Everyone are still friends and you will all grow together.

The momma bear in you came out this weekend! Even if your child was wronged by the other parents having higher expectations because she was the oldest, you shouldn't teach her not to share. We have good friends we see only a couple of times a year. Now when the two couples come over with their children, the three families make a huge group. I tell my boys to give me the toys they don't want others to play with and I let them know that they can't play with them either during this time. (There are tons of other toys to play with). I also make sure that there are other activities like sidewalk chalk or crafts to do and that each child has enough supplies.

Of course the age group you have right now is too young for what I suggested. I think the thing to remember is next year you will have a 5, 4, and 3 year old playing together. The dynamics will be different. I would try to bring things for this age group can do. (containers of bubbles, sidewalk chalk, etc...) If the adults are talking with each other and you let loose the kids without any direction, chaos with happen just like it did this time.

Good luck... I actually had a similiar situation when my kids were younger. It's important to remember that your friendships have existed for a long time and this is a blimp of discomfort when you look at the whole picture.

Random thoughts...

Tell your daughter to bring 3 things to the next weekend; 2 things she is prepared to share and 1 things that is hers only. And then explain this to the other kids (and parents) when you arrive. Some things really are not for sharing (a very precious teddy or very expensive DS for example).

Set your watch and planfully interupt whatever the kids are doing every 20 minutes. Kids that age given too much eyes-off/hands-off time are bound to start pushing each others buttons. And interuption will reset their internal patience timers.

I have raised my children to know there is at home rules and public rules. They are totally cool with being held to stricter standards when we are out and about. Prepare your daughter ahead of time how to "walk away" when she thinks the little ones might become too much for her to handle.

Prepare yourself. Other people's kids are always more annoying than our own. Recognize this is a very natural if not super accurate bias.

Plan for a better time next year. The older children get, the less significant a few months or a couple years is. But before age 7 or 8...There is something very developmentally different about a 3 yr old vs a 4 yr old. When they are 7 & 8, this gap will feel almost invisible.

Don't worry about betraying your daughter. In reality, you probably gave her a teeny tiny sneak peek into how school (and life) works. Some kids are naughty and sometimes we get blamed for things that are not totally our fault. But at the end of the day, we are accountable for OUR behavior and the older she gets the more she is likely to find joy in doing the right thing not because it is fair or easy but because it is RIGHT.

I totally hear ya- it's strange to see relationship shift once kids are involved. But it is such a sensitive and personal topic. I am in agreement with you about not having to share if your daughter doesn't want to. When some kid comes to my daughter and tries to take it away, I say in a matter-of-fact way, "She's playing with this toy now. If you want, you can wait for your turn when she's done. (And hand the other kid a different toy) You can play with this instead, if you'd like."

A book that kind of sets the tone for my parenting is called, "Smart Love." It's a good read, if you are looking for some ways to parent. I don't do everything the book says, but I like it's overarching theme that the child should be loved and respected.

I don't think kids under 6 have developmental understanding of "sharing."

I don't know it seems that perhaps your so called "friends" and yourself carry different values and you might want to consider that into the equation. You mentioned in your post that you didn't believe that your daughter should always share and that is what you intended to teach her. That's fine and I am quite sure there will be others here to judge you for that and try to justify their reasoning as to why you should be teaching your daughter otherwise.
I personally believe and do teach my children to share because that is how I was raised and believe in the teachings from the bible. That is MY personal belief and I don't try to convert anyone else just because they believe to be different. I am not the judge-God is.
If I/my children are put into a situation where the other person's child isn't being taught to share or the parent wants to make excuses, ignore, etc. etc. my girls are expected to share regardless. They are 7 years old so they have a bigger understanding of the concept from say a 1 year old, 2,3 or even 4 year old does. However I started them from a very young age and because they are twins they do tend to share better because that is just the way they have lived from day 1-they don't know any different. Twins share alot of things and believe me there are arguements and when the arguements begin and I tell them that they need to take turns and the behavior continues the toy gets taken out of the equation. I have literally taken toy after toy after toy until they realized that everything they were arguing over was going to get taken away. Call me mean I don't care but eventually they learned but they still have their "moments".
If the parents were using the excuse that the child was younger there is some truth to that. A four year old does have a better concept of sharing than say 2 and 3 year olds but to single your daughter out each and everytime was also wrong. They themselves need to begin teaching their "babies" how to share as well even if it causes a tantrum. I personally think that each and every single time an arguement began a parent should have stepped in and said if you can't share and play nice then no one gets to play with the toy. That way the behavior all together is getting nipped in the bud because its not really the sharing its the arguements involved. I think both parties are at fault here because you obviously share different views/ethics/values whatever. I think that needs to be discussed between ALL of you in an adult manner to come up with a solution that makes you all happy. Don't be confrontational though because it will only spark an arguement/disagreement and don't disclose anything about their parenting choices. Explain yours and ask them how they feel in regards to raising their children and come up with a plan on how to handle the situation the next time so no one feels guilty walking away.

I feel like I'm too hard on my 3 1/2 year old when we're around other kids and probably for similar reasons. He's very big for his age (more like a kindergartener) and likes to play hard (not mean, just hard--running, climbing, wrestling, throwing balls, being dinosaurs and dragons). I find myself trying to make him tone himself down when we're around other kids because I don't want people to think he is nuts or that I have no control, when really I should just make sure he's not trying to make someone play with him when they don't want to and that he's respecting other children's boundaries. I am getting better about reminding him at the park that he can play with other kids but he has to ask them first (not assume). He has a 2 year old brother, so the sharing issue can be a problem. He does sometimes take things for no reason from his brother, which I make him give back (if I catch it) but his little brother will also throw a fit wanting something my older boy has, and I also do not believe in making a child give up a toy just because a younger child is throwing a fit. If something is limited (like a car in the driveway) I might tell them upfront that they have to take turns, but that is different.

You've learned a great lesson and you can share it without being bratty:) Next trip stand up in a positive way for your daughter. Enforce the "3-min rule" (and all other rules) for all the kids to show equality and good sportsmanship. Allow you and your daughter the same "oh, poor baby" comments and loving care as your friends -- give them small, quiet reminders all children deserve the same love, attention and respect, irregardless of age.

I have 3-yr. old twins, so I am constantly playing referree. We have a "5 minute rule" in our house (one twin is constantly taking things from the other)--the one who started out playing with the toy can have it for the next 5 minutes, then we switch. Usually, the first kid will lose interest before the 5 minutes are even up. Works most of the time!

I haven't read all the other responses, but I think your friends were completely in the wrong for disrespecting your daughter (and you) that way. I have a 6 year old nephew, who has a sister that is 19 months old just like my son. I feel terribly for him because since he is always the older kid with the "babies", he is being set to this high standard constantly. It's hard for kids to share, just like its hard for adults to share! I dont want to share my husband, my home, my clothes, my favorite objects--why should we expect kids to just hand stuff over because a smaller child is throwing a fit about wanting it? I think next time you will remember this and will treat your daughter differently. Don't beat yourself up about it, nobody wants to step on another mother's toes (especially close friends) and all you were doing was trying to keep the peace. Telling the other children "Well, she is playing with it now and you can play with it when you're done. Let's find you something else to play with until then" usually works well for my son and my 10 nieces and nephews (all 6 and under, by the way). You're a great mom, it shows in how concerned you are about your daughters feelings. Best of luck!

I don't think that your philosopy is wrong. I don't know WHY we insist on pushing "sharing" with our children. ADULTS DON'T SHARE! HELLO!?!?! If someone decided that they wanted my car, I'd tell them to take a hike!! If someone decided that they wanted my house, I'd tell them to shove it! Why do we force our children to routinely surrender their property? It's not a practical lesson for real life. Sharing and "giving" are two totally different things. Giving is important. We should give, of our own free will (i.e. not enforced by a nanny state government), but sharing is a different story. Sharing means that you have to give up your property to anyone that expresses an interest in it. That's not real life folks!! I don't MAKE my kids share. I do teach them that with family and close friends, sharing usually makes everyone feel better and that it smoothes the way socially with these important people, but I do not FORCE them to share. That would be wrong. It's socialism right from the cradle if you ask me.

The way to handle it in the future is to make sure that YOU are treating your daughter right. Then you can look down YOUR nose at the other moms that aren't making an effort to school the behavior of their toddlers (they're ALL old enough to learn how to wait their turn; my 2, almost 3yo certainly knows how to wait his turn!). Maybe you could sweetly suggest the book 1-2-3 Magic to them to assist them with their toddler's behavior. Or you could just tell the other toddlers gently that they will have to wait their turn and to find something else to play with in the meantime. Do this right in front of the other moms and make sure that you do it with your own child as well when the roles are reversed.

Oh and I also have a rule that no matter what a person does not have to share the things that are THEIRS alone. Like my 8yo has a huge (expensive) transformer toy that he absolutely does NOT share (especially not with his little brother). I'm cool with that. It was expensive. I know that he knows how to play with it without breaking it, but I don't have any such assurances with the other kids, so others are not allowed to touch it. Great. However we usually put it up in his closet before a sleep-over or anything else like that, just to make sure.

Oh and you could also try telling the other moms that you don't want your daughter getting the wrong idea right off the bat so you don't force her to share. You could say with a big innocent look on your face "After all, I don't want her growing up thinking that she has to share her body with any boy that comes along...." I'm sure this will shut them up.

honey, i do the same thing with my daughter, always expecting her to act better than other kids, then requiring that she do so, even if around children that are not held up to the same rules. Ive never given it a second thought. I suppose in the future we could both try to see it as unfair, and maybe point out to the other moms that we see it as unfair.

Yeah, I know what you mean! Have you ever noticed that people with kids younger than yours tend to be very judgmental? I cringe when I think of how I have probably similarly judged people with kids older than mine ("Why do they let her do xyz? She should know better by now!" - that kind of stuff).

I have noticed this both in general and also specifically with close friends of ours who have kids younger than ours. The older ones are always being held to some sterling standard of behavior, while the younger ones are allowed to act their age.

The only thing I can suggest is to let the kids work it out amongst themselves in any way they can, short of beating each other up. This is difficult if any of your friends are "helicopter parents" but it is worth a try. If they aren't coming to blows, let the kids handle it. Otherwise the oldest child always takes the brunt of the discipline.

I just went through the same thing about a week ago while my bil, his wife and their 2yr old daughter were here for a week. My son is 4 and is a very well behaved child. Plays well with other kids, uses manners, etc. I watched the same thing go on between the kids. He would have a toy that she would instantly want and he had to share. If she had it, he had to wait. And what ticked me off more was the fact it was the other mom tossing out the who does what and when to my child instead of me! After a few days, I started to draw the conclusion that the little girl is rarely told no by anyone! She kept chasing my cats and after 3 times of me asking her to stop I put my arm out in front of her to stop her from running after the cat and to ask her one last time. She freaked out and started crying for her dad. She did it another time when she wouldn't listen to her mom so I picked her up and carried her. She started crying for her mom. And the worse part for my son was that he couldn't even play in his own house when she was sleeping!! They created a sleep monster by making everything so quiet while she sleeps that no one can make a sound!! They had the exhaust fan on in the bathroom of our bedroom and the ceiling fan going to make white noise. She was clear at the back of the house and my son was at the front playing with hotwheels track and her mom came running out of the bathroom (in the middle of the house) asking him to play with it quieter because she was sleeping!! I about lost my head but kept my cool. Especially since I was sitting right next to my son watching TV and wasn't bothered by his noise.

I think the thing is, these other people think our kids are little adults because they are older than their kids. But they aren't, they are kids and they are learning the ways of the world just like other kids are. Don't get me wrong, when there is a baby in my house (under 1yr old) and my son gets frustrated, I do try to explain to him that it's a baby and they are learning how to share, play nice, etc. But kids just don't learn how to to that. Parents have to teach kids how to play nice, take turns, share and all that fun stuff and in my world, once you are able to talk and walk, school is in!

Just let it go. It's not worth stressing over unless you plan to hang out with these girls every few months. Then it would need to be address in an adult manner. They'll 'get it' one day when the shoe is on the other foot.

S.