What Do You Think? - Orangevale,CA

Hi W..

Your intentions are very good. Unfortunately, not everyone is going to see the world as we do. And, we won't always understand why they just don't do things the right way - our way.

It's clear your feelings are hurt and you're trying to do the right thing under the guise of it's best for the family...However, you may want to review the Serenity Prayer and recognize this is not a situation within your control...'Want to keep peace? 'Want to be the 'bigger person'? I'd say -- let everyone do what -they- want to do and stop judging them for it. It won't be easy at first. Some of the most selfless decisions aren't...

But, once you have decided to let go of controling your brother's life and trust the decisions he makes for himself and his family, the quicker you can focus on doing special things for and with your core family group. When you're happy, your immediate family will be happier too.

Support your brother if he asks for it. Otherwise, let him make (what you think) are his own mistakes.

Good luck. And, I sincerely hope you have a wonderful Thanksgiving, W.. :)

Dear W.,

Honestly, it sounds like you are as controlling as your sister-in-law's friend and upset because she’s won the battle for the last 4-5 years. There’s some information missing regarding your brother telling the family who and who not to invite???

I think holidays can be spent with “both” family and friends. In our family, and it is large, we gather early on Christmas Eve, have a good visit, nice dinner and exchange gifts. (We did a white elephant last year because spending was getting out of hand and we all have what we need—it worked out great and was lots of fun).

The reason we start early is because our adult children now married with families of their own, like to spend Christmas morning with their little ones at their own home, and then go to the families of their respective in-laws or relatives. Some of us go to friend’s homes on Christmas day and some of us just like to stay home and invite friends in for open house. And some of us just like to put on our new robe, build a fire and have some "me time".

Your comment about a “sober” Christmas also leaves a few questions. We have family members and friends who are recovering alcoholics or simply choose NOT to drink any beverage containing alcohol. Some have not touched a drop for 15-20 years and they are not bothered when others imbibe. However, unless most of your family members are raging drunks, there should be NO reason for those who wish to, not to be able to have a glass of wine or cocktail.

Lastly, I think its important to celebrate the true meaning of Christmas, the birth of Christ our Lord and Savior. It’s about loving one another, including family, friends, and strangers, those less fortunate and yes, even our enemies (which is hard to do in this day and time). It’s about respecting other folk’s point of view, even if you don’t always agree. It’s about forgiving one another because we all fall short.

Blessings…..

Ahh, the holidays and all the stress that comes with it.
First of all I urge you to be part of the solution and not part of the problem of causing holiday stress. If your brother and SIL live local then you must see them at other times during the year, right? I love the holidays, but to force "by guilt" your family to visit is just wrong. There are 365 days in a year and why we put so much emphasis on some of them to have everyone in one room at the same time...is ridiculous. The holidays are to be spent with friends and family that you enjoy being with...
The holidays, to me, begin at Thanksgiving and last till New Years Day, so ANYTIME during that time frame is a good time to get together with people for holiday cheer. Plan to have dinner with your brother some night when it's convenient for them, ask them to pick the date. Spread the holidays out and don't just limit it to Thanksgiving Day and Christmas Day. Our schedules these days just make that almost impossible to happen anymore.

We have issue's with my in-laws about the same things, like "where-to-be" or "where-not-to-be".....whatever we do, we are looked down on for our decisions.....

Anyway, about 3 years ago, we decided that even though we were raised with cousins and all family around the Holidays, we needed to focus on OUR family and the happiness and memories that we can make from it for our children. Evenutally (or not) our family will "come around " and perhaps decide to get together for SOME holiday.....but for now, we have eliminated that STRESS and emotional concern from our home and try to focus on our own family.

The first 2 years were hard, because there is guilt, and and it's just emotional when you really want to be with family. BUT....last year, and so far this year, it has become eaiser for us emotionally. It has made us work harder during the year to see our families because we don't see them this time of year anymore.

Relax.....focus on your kids....you will be more relaxed during the holidays wihtout all the hustle and bustle and cleaning. It's THEIR choice not yours, so you have no control over their decision anyway.

~N. :O)

Honestly W.,
I don't think this is your business-- you were raised one way (have holidays with family) she was raised another (have holidays with whoever you want), what's the problem? If anyone whould get upset about this, I'd think it be her husband, but he seems OK with it, so I suggest letting it go and enjoying whoever does show up to your house.

Well holidays are complicated. =) If it isn't in-laws it is exes and now friends! We came up with a solution that works very well for our family. Since we have a his/hers/ours and kids over 21 we decided that the best thing was to split up the holidays. We always get Thanksgiving, the exes get Christmas. We have as many of our kids as possible at Thanksgiving (7 out of 8 this year woohoo!). We do the normal Thanksgiving thing, wash up dishes, set up the Christmas tree and put out stockings. The day after Thanksgiving we treat like Christmas. We love it! We get all our shopping done early, see our kids without a fuss and we get to treat Christmas like a religious holiday, which suites us just fine!
Ask your brother and SIL to consider doing this, then there will never be a fuss and you will know that you will always see them on X holiday. It has definitely made our lives easier.....

Okay this is something I'm going thru, but with a lot of different, events not just holidays. My feeling (or the way I'm going to try and start feeling) is this, it takes too much energy for me to be upset that they would rather be somewhere else. There is a reason in their heads, and for me to worry about it is too much. I invite who I want at my house and some will come, some won't. It is their loss if they don't. I will make the attempt to see them and if it works out than wonderful, but I won't worry about them not seeing me, that is their loss.
I know it's hurtful, but some people just haven't got that connection feeling to blood relatives, but rather have a stronger connection with relatives of the heart.

Celebrate with the people you love and who love and want to be with you.....she'll come around sometime and if not, it's not that you love her less, just know that it won't be as close of a relationship as you would like.

Good luck and happy holidays

It sounds like your brother is happy with the situation, so I think you simply need to back off. If he is coming to your family gatherings, don't make comments about his wife. This can only be counterproductive, pushing him away from the family too. Whoever is hosting your family get togethers should simply invite all the people they choose to invite, then accept warmly those who choose to attend, and don't worry about the others. I know it hurts when you feel that it should be an all-inclusive family celebration, but sometimes it just doesn't work out that way for whatever reasons.
One other thought, has anyone ever thought about the possibility of inviting your sister-in-law's friend? I don't know that she'd accept, or that it would work out, but if she did come you might possibly gain a new understanding of why your SIL chooses her over the family. You could possibly even gain a new friend for the family in the process.
As far as serving alchohol is concerned, my personal opinion is that the host of a gathering has the say in that. People who want to drink alchoholic beverages should not automatically expect them at every gathering, but have their drinks at another time. Our family tends to want soft drinks at every gathering, but when we host in our home, I tend to have only juice, water, coffee, tea and milk available. People choose from those and I don't get a lot of complaints. When we go to gatherings at the homes of our children or others, we find soft drinks and alchoholic beverages are often served, but we don't complain about that either. I only complain at one relative's home when he tries to make me feel like there is something terribly wrong with me, because I choose not to drink alchohol, but I think I finally solved that problem a few years ago by telling him if he came to my house and I offered him coffee and he said 'no thank you' I would accept that and not try to force him to drink coffee... and that I expected the same courtesy from him regarding alchoholic beverages. I have even been in homes where one or more people were really drunk, but as long as they didn't become beligerent with me or violent, I let that go and enjoyed my visit with the other people present.

Dear W.,
By virtue of my brother-in-law, we have a huge extended family. We have our holiday wing-dings at my sister's house which is half way between me and my mom so it works out nicely since we don't have so far to drive.
My brother-in-law's parents are divorced and remarried and don't get along that well so he has two sets of parents to juggle. My brother-in-law is divorced and remarried to my sister so his kids that are grown with families of their own juggle their time between their mom and dad as well as the parents of their spouses. Some years they trade off and have Thanksgiving one place then Christmas and New Year's another. Sometimes they have dinner with one and then stop by to see the other for a short visit for pictures etc. Some years my kids and I just stay home because it's nice every once in a while just to have the day to ourselves and not have a long drive. Sometimes we are invited to spend the day with friends that are as close to us as family. Some years, some of us invite people to my sister's house that have no family in town because there's always enough food and my sister is like me...she'd hate anyone to be alone. The more the merrier! Every single time we share our family in that way, we feel like the day just wouldn't have been the same if they hadn't been there.
My point to all this is that in my family at least, it would be absolutely impossible to expect everyone to be at one place at any given time and the holidays are even tougher when you've got so many people trying their best to make everybody happy. There's no guilt, there are no hurt feelings. It's a simple matter of logistics.
One person in our family, even though there are grandkids in common, will only spend the holidays with her own family. She wants her kids raised with her family's traditions and her husband goes along with it so there is no need to start a stink over it. In fact, my sister just mails the kids their presents because she knows they will not make an appearance. It's just the way it is.
I would continue to invite your brother and sister-in-law or let them know if you will all be meeting at Uncle So and so's house and leave it at that. If they show up, they show up and if they don't, they don't. I wouldn't send any more messages about who has the right to do this or do that. Adults have the right to make their own choices whether we like them or not. One person choosing not to show up on holidays should not tear any family apart. The rest of the family can just proceed with their plans and have a wonderful time and not make one segment of the family the focus of the holiday being a success or a flop. I don't know that the sober thing has anything to do with it. Not being able to have a glass of wine with dinner shouldn't be a deal breaker. I think there is more going on than that.
The best case scenario would be to reach a compromise in which you trade off holidays or your brother visit the rest of the family before going to the other place or visit on the way home afterwards. But it's not something you can force.
I would just drop it other than to say, "Dinner will be (wherever) at 2:30 (or whatever time) and we hope you can make it." No rules, no boundaries, no animosity. That way, you've extended the invitation and they can take it or leave it.
Let the day be a day to enjoy the ones you have around you, love the ones you love that aren't there, and make the most of your blessings whatever they may be.
You know, there are a lot of people in dire situations financially right now and have lost their jobs, their houses, their cars. There are families who have to choose a PG&E bill over presents for their kids. Those are the people I think about with the holidays approaching. It weighs heavily on my heart.
Don't sweat the small stuff.

Family is the people you love and who love you, whether they are related or not. I can't imagine spending the holidays every year with friends rather than families --- my friends would be spending THEIR holidays with their families and planning another time to spend time with me. Where is the friend's family? Maybe you should include her in YOUR family holiday. And maybe THAT won't even work. If your brother isn't inclined to join you because you don't serve alcohol, it's probably best. He can't go one day without drinking?? I would suspect he has a problem. In any case, invite everyone and enjoy the time with the ones who show up. You can't make people do things they don't want, you can't force people to love each other. Sad as it is, it's their loss if they don't spend this time enjoying their family. You may also find that, once you stop making it an issue, they may suddenly want to join you. Sometimes people just don't like being told what to do! You might also talk to your SIL to see if you can help her break the hold the friend seems to have. Maybe even SHE doesn't want to go to the friend's house, but the friend is holding something over her? Talk to her.

I also wouldn't worry about it. If they don't want to come that's their loss. I sure wouldn't even think twice about it. I firmly believe family is what you make it - it's not always about who you're actually related too.

Enjoy those around you that want to be there - and don't worry about anyone else.

You've gotten some great advice but I have a similar situation and I was as frustrated as you. I live about 2 1/2 hours from my mom and about 1 hour from my brother and SIL. My SIL is from Mexico and spends every Xmas with her family. She has a mother and a brother and sister, both single, older, and no children. The whole group gets together every holiday and they alternate between the USA and Mexico. Our family is never invited to their house for Xmas or any other event, for that matter. They're invited to our house about once a year and we see them at my mother's house at Thanksgiving.

There was a time when the Mexican relatives would come to my mom's house when it was their year to be in the USA. So this is our holiday. My SIL relatives get priority for Xmas. Unless I invite my brother and his extended family this is as it will continue to be. And my SIL and I get along well but her family is very important to her and, to be fair, eventhough her mom spends about 3-4 months every year with them, she only sees her bother and sister once a year.

I know that you must be doubly hurt that it's a "friend" that they are spending the holiday with. I did want to say that I can't imagine the lack of alcohol has anything to do with it. Most people can get along for a couple hours without alcohol and it is Xmas, not New Years Eve.

You need to let go of your fantasy of the big family gathering. I know it hurts but it's better to be realistic than to be mad at your SIL. Good-luck.

I too prefer my friends to family and it has taken 20 years of marriage for my husband's family to even treat me as part of the family. Perhaps your SIL feels the same way. She could also have more fun with her friend. Holidays should be enjoyable and if you're not having fun, why stick with a dead tradition. Traditions only are worth keeping if they work for you. Just because you were raised spending the holidays together doesn't mean that she was or that she has to follow your tradition. Life is too short to do only what is expected of you. Remember, holidays are days of celebration, not obligation.

Hi W.-
My first thought is to sit down and have a loving heart to heart with her. No judgement, but really dig deep and find out why she prefers to be with her friend instead of her family over the holidays. Let her know you want her there and really miss not having her around, especially on birthdays, etc. As far as the babies are concerned, I can understand her being there for them if this friend is very close to her, but perhaps you could compromise? Call the friend and say we want to plan a party that your SIL would attend at a separate time so that she is not torn between the two.
Does anyone know this friend? Can she and her boys be invited over for dinner or something, so that everyone is together?
Just a few ideas, and i hope they help.
Good luck. And remember that the more loving and gentle you are, the better she will respond.
-E. M

maybe they are more than just friends...?

Hello Wendy,

Holiday's always seem to be more stressful then they need to be. You may have your traditions and what you feel is important for holiday's but that doesn't mean everyone in your family (in laws included) need to follow it. There is always someone who wants to be different. If it is important to have your family together then have a dinner before or after the major holiday. The day shouldn't be what's important, just being together.
Since I've been with my husband, even when we were dating, we go to his grandmothers house for Thanksgiving. Since we've had children its too exhausting to try to go to two different houses on Thanksgiving. So, now we get together with my family after Thanksgiving. There's no rush and they get their time with us and the kids.
Hopefully this helps.
-E.

If she doesn't want to go to your house, why do you care? Her relationship with your brother is really none of your business.

Just enjoy the people who ARE at your house, and have a good time without her. I can't imagine why you would want to have someone at your house who doesn't really want to be there.

Yes, it might have something to do with the alcohol. Some people like to drink at social occasions. I have friends who aren't drinkers who host many parties, yet still allow wine and alcohol at their parties for their friends who DO like an occasional drink.

Yes, you are wrong to feel like other people have to do things the way YOU want them to.

If it's "tearing your family apart," then maybe YOU should stop tearing your family apart by making a big deal out of little things. Look at how you berated your own brother for something his wife did. I think you should apologize to your brother and sister-in-law for being a biotch.

Focus on your own life, W.. Sorry if this sounds harsh.

Dear W.,

The best thing that you can do, in my opinion, is plan your holiday the way you want it, invite everyone you wish, and let them do what they want. We can only control our own immediate family. You shouldn't take it personally - apparently someone else has a difference of opinion.

So make your family plans, enjoy your holiday to the best of your ability, let them do as they wish, but you will know that you left it open for them to attend with your family - the choice is theirs.

The main thing - don't let others control how you enjoy any event - you can make a choice to enjoy it doing what you wish. :)

B.

you may have hit on something with the fact that you have a sober holiday...

i think your brother has to talk to her, and if he wont, this matter is out of your hands.

you should be baffled, but i can't see how you will be able to get your SIL to come over for the holidays, will your bro come w/o her?

sorry about the poor typing, i only have one hand free :)

You know, just because family is local doesn't mean you get along with all of them. Has your SIL ever been uncomfortable around your family? Maybe there are more serious reasons why she chooses not to spend the holidays with you guys. I also know of a few people who feel that their friend is more like a sister, or brother, etc., and that is Family to them, so yeah, they are going to spend the holidays with Their family. I feel that way about a friend, my own SIL does so with her best friend, and many others as well. I was also raised to spend holidays with the whole entire extended family, but I would hate it now if I had to deal with all of them. My morals and values are far different from theirs and how I treat holidays is also different. So perhaps it is simply a matter of culture. To balance it out a little, maybe you can convince your brother and her, together, that they can visit with both sides of the family, so everyone can have a chance to enjoy each other, especially for the sake of the children in the family. It's not fair to them, I'm sure they are taught that the holidays is a time for family love, and they do not get the chance to show the love all of their family on those days nor do they receive it in person from their uncle and aunt. So if your SIL cannot consider this at final point at the least, then I would have to conclude that either she and her side of the family, or that you and your side of the family, are highly immoral, and I say this with experience.

Hi W.,

I don't really see the issue. For some reason, your sister feels very close to this friend and vice versa and chooses to spend the holidays there. I wouldn't let it effect me - farther than maybe saying to your sister that you really miss her on holidays and wish she would reconsider - otherwise, let it go - it just seems to me one of those choices of battles to be fought - and you can't make someone "change." If she wants to change her mind, she has to make that decision on her own and getting mad at her or telling her she is wrong in her decision will most likely not convince her to spend the day with the family.
Hope this helps and enjoy your holidays!

Whether you should spend holidays with your family or not depends on how well you get along. Last Christmas I tried again --- I invited my parents and my brother, spent gobs of money, cooked for days, and my family not only didn't appreciate it, they started a fight --- the same damn fight they start almost every time we get together, i.e., what they think my kids and I should be doing with OUR lives. So this year I'm going to spend the holidays with friends, and have a good time.

While it should be spent with family just plan with other family members your get together and if they don't wish to be a part of it then have fun without them. For years I have been trying to work things around my sisters kids work schedules and her in laws to the point that I don't even want to be with them. I just plan when my family wants to do something and they either make it or they don't.