4 Yr Old Has Become Very Disobedient

Hello,

Have you spent one-on-one time with him? Is anyone picking on him? It might not be the "right" pre-school for him. How is he when you drop him off and when you pick him up?

all the best!

Has there been a recent stressful event or change (death, divorce, etc.)? I highly recommend John Rosemond's parenting advice (www.rosemond.com). He advises having a voice of authority, instead of using bribes or bargaining, which really don't teach anything. Just about any of his books could be useful in regaining control and teaching him to be responsible for himself.

Wow! Does that sound familiar! When my oldest son (now 11) turned 4, I recall thinking "Who are you and what have you done with my son?" My sweet little boy became obnoxious! Hang in there! Lots of tough love. Not easy, but worth it!

Of course, it could be something else. Illness, as you mentioned. Also, I don't like to think of it, but is there any chance he could have been abused, sexually or otherwise, recently? Friend, family member/sibling, etc.? It only takes once. I know it's a scary thought, but it happens more than we'd like to know. My husband is living proof that one instance can affect the rest of his life (more suseptible to future instances, thinking this is "normal" behavior, etc.). I hope this is not it and your son is just being a typical kid! :)

I know how you feel my son is 2 and a half and he goes thru phases of not listening and throwing fits. I find that more times than not he is either sick (ear infection, sore throat)or tired or hungry. So while I try and address that problem it is not ok for him to not listen and misbehave so he does get punished whether it is taking a toy away or like you not getting a treat. You are doing the right thing and don't feel like a terrible mom. They love you unconditionaly and I will tell you something he is going to think twice next time at school about not cooperating.

Looking for an event-trigger is what I thought of first, too, but it might be a smaller (to our adult perception) one, like, one of the kids at school "took" (maybe just to his perception) his favorite-at-school toy and the teacher (and therefore by extention "mom") didn't step up and "fix" it ...

Imposition of arbitrary authority (suddenly telling him treats are for good behavior, which it sounds like they previously weren't?) can only worry him about what other rules he doesn't know (hence his panic?). Taking away a treat is an obvious consequence for an adult ... but the kids don't see that.

I think it is very wise of you to think it might be early signs of illness. My kids get amazingly unbalanced for about two days before they get "actually" sick! (And I almost never remember that, until they are obviously sick and I'm kicking myself for forgetting--again!)

One other thing to look at, is he acting out with Daddy too, or mostly Mommy and now starting to be teachers? Sometimes who gets the act-out can tell you something about why he's doing it.

And always remember that kids want to be loved and to belong. Even though his behaviors are completely destructive to that--he is trying to make connection. If you can figure out which connection he is craving and not feeling (not that you don't love him--but maybe he needs it communicated a different way for _him_ to "hear" it right now), you don't even really have to figure out the trigger, because the underlaying need will be met.

Hope some of that helps. Poor little guy. (Poor you!)

Dear Kerry,
Just a word of advice...
Don't use food as a reward tool. Kids will just asume go hungry than bend to your expectations. Try using tangable items, you will feel less guilty about not giving in when he throws tantrums as aposed to feeling like you are starving him.
Oh, and one more thing. He may be feeling lost in the 5 kids and seeking attention. Try keeping him on a strict schedule and make sure you give him plenty of snuggle time.
Hope this helps a little.
KJ

Kerry,

You are not alone!!! I am dealing with my own 4 1/2 year old that is mouthy, argumentative, bossy, know-it-all, etc. I think, for the most part that this is part of the age. My niece and nephew (now almost five and 6 1/2, respectively) went through the same phase. Some days I want to either pull all my hair out, or just punt him through as many walls as I can, as hard as I can.

I too feel like a terrible mom sometimes, even though I know I'm not. Something my dad used on me that I absolutely hated! with a passion: "I don't have to be fair, I'm Dad". Drove me up the wall as a child, but I find myself using it on my son. Or, the variations of "Well, life's not fair". We as parents are not here to be the best friend of our children (although that would be nice), we are here to make sure that they are raised to be functioning, contributing members of society.

Hope this helps,
Melissa

My 4 yo son can also be very disobedient. Some of it is just being 4 - they're starting to realize that it's not "all about them", and that they have to follow other people's schedules (school, etc). It's a tough adjustment for a preschooler. My son also has some self-regulation issues, on top of just being 4, so sometimes I feel like all I do is redirect his behavior and put him in time outs. Other times, he's an absolute fantastic "listener", as we call it. But it's all about change when you're 4, and that's a tough thing for a lot of kids to process.

But I recommend talking with your pediatrician about it. Also, talk to your son and see if he is carrying any anxiety around about school, friends, family, stuff like that. It's tough to get a four year old to really explain their feelings, but if you just spend some patient one on one time with them, you might be able to pick up on some triggers that are making him feel and act this way. But also, don't push the "feelings" talk...let it come about in an unhurried way. He might just be trying to exert some control over his life, by doing the things HE wants to do, when HE wants to do it.

I know how it is to have to sit through the heartbreaking tears when they don't get that treat..but you did the right thing. He might be testing boundaries, so it's important you don't give in.

But definitely go back to the dr. and talk to them about this...maybe w/out your son there so he doesn't feel self conscious.

I also have a 4 year old son, who it seems as soon as he turned 4 became a monster. He has good days and bad days, but I guess the best thing is positive reinforcement. Catch him doing something good and praise him alot for it. We learned this in parenting classes and it helped for a while, then we got lazy and quit doing it and now we are back to doing it because there is a big difference. He looses toys and privelages when he gets into trouble, and stands in the corner. He doesnt like it much but it seems to be taking hold in his mind what the difference is. Good Luck.

good for you!!!!
this is going to one of many dissapointments he will have....but on the bright side you are setting good boundries and showing him how behaving and being a good student is going to be his job until he is 18 (his kid job). the more you work on it now the more he will get it and have better and better habits as he gets further along in school. you have these small windows to establish a c;ear boundary of what is to be expected and how one acts in public and at home. when we waver on our expectations our kids suffer, you're not being hard on him even with how bad you feel about the crying and hala blue you are showing him what is important and what it means to be acoountable...being accountable for our actions is going to come up so mamy more times over the next 14yrs and for his whole life for that matter. it's your job to help understand what that means.
good luck and be strong. the pay off is so worth it.
J.

me: single mom of a 12yr old boy

Kerry-

A lot of the advice so far is along the same lines, and my advice for you is too.

Kids seem to "rotate" attitudes about every 6 months. So just hang on and you and your son will get thru it, I promise!

And you were absolutely right to withold that "treat" since his behavior at preschool was so poor. He is going to need real consequences for his behavior. Whether it's time-outs, loss of priveleges, or loss of "sweet treats", it needs to be consistent and firm. You may feel like a "bad" parent, but try not to be swayed by your emotions. Sometimes with our kids, love has to be tough. You are a good and wise mom to tell your son he does not get treats for bad behavior.

If you want more ideas on dealing with these tough times, I would highly reccomend "Boundaries with Kids" by Dr Cloud and Dr Townsend. I find myself reading and re-reading this one often.

Hang in there! Parenting is the most rewarding adventure there is!

Wishing you all the best -
-B.-

Kerry, you did the right thing by not giving in to him and giving him the treat. They will push you at times to see how far thier/your limits will go. Reassure him how much you love him and be firm in your resolves and promises. You may be right too, he may be coming down with something and might just feeling uncooperative.
C. M.

Hi Kerry,
I have an 4 years old too and had similar issues but not that bad as I've been working on that for a while. This is just a hard period for them. If you handle it properly it will last for about 6 months, than he will get more cooperative. The testosterone hits theirs little bodies and it is hard for them to handle it. Actually the percent of the testosterone that flows to theirs bodies is higher (comparing to the body mass) than when they are teens. Positive discipline, setting limits, giving choices and most of all giving them tools to coop with theirs emotions is what it worked for me. I'm also practice Authority parenting style and that really helps.

When my older son was about 3 I was totally overwhelmed by the change in my child. I even called the nurse and asked her what was wrong. She chuckled and told me that her 3 yo daughter was lucky to see 4. Implying that some children go through this and then they grow out of it. Be supportive of your son and remember if he misbehaved at school the teachers took corrective action and if you punish him again at home it is a bit like double jepordy in the court sysstems. (being punished twice for the same crime) At 4, developmentally, they don't always relate the punishment after school to something they did in the morning. Continue being consistent in your reactions to his behavior and know that this to shall pass. :) You know him best, do what you think will work for both of you.

Hi, Kerry. This sounds incredibly familiar ~ I've had very similar experiences with our 4-year-old boy! When I talked to a friend about it, she said that on a doctor's visit with her 4-year-old son, the doctor told her that she got more mothers of 4-year-old BOYS in her office in tears and wondering what happened to their sweet child ~ even more than stressed-out mothers of newborns, which you would think would be more common! The doctor explained that this is because at the age of four, boys get a real boost in their testosterone levels and often just simply don't know what to do with it. My experience has been that if you stick to your guns while also being as gentle and compassionate with your child as possible, he'll come out the other end just fine! So I think you handled the treat situation just perfectly. My boy will be turning 5 in just a few days and has improved his behavior a whole lot. Hang in there!

kids test their boundaries all the time I have 3 children and my middle one is 6 and since she was about that age she tries my patience something awful at times I have to change my discipline because after a while she gets immune to time out or what ever it is I am using. I do know that when you tell your child what the consequence is for that action stay firm other wise they will learn fast that you are not serious, and sometimes the behavior will get worse before it gets better hang in there, stay firm he will come around I would also ask how his day is and if anyone is bugging him at school everyday and talk to the teachers to keep an eye on what is happening with your child and others, it could just be a simple conflict between kids that has him so upset and looking for attention. I would also show up unannounced at school and watch interaction between teacher and kids.

On denying your son the after-school treat:

When parents establish a "contract" or agreement in advance, they empower their children with a sense of choice: cooperate and get the reward, disobey and miss out on the reward. Kids are usually clever enough to choose the behavior that has the clearest benefits. This element of choice makes them less unhappy about cooperating, because respect for the child's wisdom is built into the contract.

So if this is the situation with the treat, then you were making the best choice by following the rules you had previously established, and your son was just unhappy about the consequences. Live and learn…

But maybe this wasn't an already-established contract. If you made up the rule about good behavior on the spot, and that was new information to your son, then he had no chance to change the behavior that had already taken place and avoid the punishment. Fairness is a real big deal to children, and this would feel massively unfair. Plus, if rules get changed often after the game is in play, kids become confused, distrustful, depressed or rebellious over time. (Additionally, he may be unconsciously worried that his challenging behavior will cause you to reject him, and he could see your withdrawing your traditional treat time as confirmation of this fear.)

A contract is not the same thing as bribery, which desperate parents often use to try to "buy" their kids' compliance during a misbehavior, for the comfort or convenience of the parent. This gives the child an awful lot of power and gives a lesson the parents will regret sooner or later.

Another mama suggested you also check for possible trauma or violation of your son. This is always a possibility when behavior changes suddenly with no clear reason. You or your husband might arrange relaxed, private time with your child, maybe over a quiet activity, in which you can make some gentle, open-ended inquiries, and watch his reactions carefully. Listen between the lines.

Good luck.

Could just be a reaction to starting preschool, and lacking the routine? I know it's only a couple days a week. But what I've noticed with my 4 yr. old is that the routine means everything. Breaking from the routine usually results in bad behavior. I am sure he will become acclamated to his new routine soon. But don't feel like a bad mommy, sounds like you are being consistent and fair!

I too have a 4 year old in preschool 2 days a week. I also have a 12 year old, so i've been through this stage before. I really don't think it's some "serious issue" or anything like that. Kids go through phases where they try to see what they can get away with. I also don't think there's anything wrong with you telling him he has consequences for his behavior. I mean we all do and when he gets to kindergarten there will be consequences there too. So there's nothing wrong with you not giving him his treat for being naughty. I think as long as you keep the rules the same as you always have and are willing to work with the teacher and be open and honest with her you and your son will be ok. My 12 year old was an absolute nightmare in kindergarten. He had never been in that kind of enviroment before (never in daycare or preschool) and we finally figured it out, he just needed more structure than some of the other kids, so the teacher would give him small tasks to do when they were having "unorganized" time. It's great that you are getting the opportunity to figure things out before "real school" starts. If he truely enjoys school then you may even have to go as far as keeping him home from school one day for his behavior. I know my son is very very sad when he is sick and can't go to school. I think it's just a phase and like I said stay on top of the situation,keep the rules the same and be willing to work with his teacher and you'll all make it through. Aren't kids confusing sometimes?
Best wishes,
W.

I can really relate... I have a beautiful, bright 11 year old girl. She is quite the challenge sometimes. I find that we just have to follow through with rewarding good behavior well and that when she misbehaves we need to give her appropriate consequences. The most important thing with her is to have a "fresh start" every morning. When she was younger, it was to have a "fresh start" at each meeting. (Morning before school, after school, after music... etc.) She seemed to work better with short periods of time where she was expected to behave. You might also want to talk with your son to see if he's got something going on in his little head... when my 8 year old son gets like that, it's usually because something is really bothering him and he doesn't know how to talk to me about it.
Hang in there... we all feel like terrible moms when we can't give our kids the world on a platter (or ice cream after school). You are not alone and we all go through something like this at least once in our lives. Keep your spirits up!

Don't feel like a horrible mother. Your job as a mother is not to be his friend and make him happy all the time, it is to teach him skills that will help him in life. That is just what you did by denying him a treat for bad behavior.

It's tough to say what the cause of his behavior is because it could be so many different things. It may be an illness, it may be his molars coming in, it may be something emotional that he is dealing with, it may be that he didn't sleep well, it may be that someone special to him worked late one day, or was out of town, or that something in his schedule or room changed.

Just be loving and consistent, keep up with the discipline, and try to wait it out.

In my experience it's kind of a "4" thing. I have taught pre-school for years and years and I dread the 4's! Ok, maybe not dread, but you know what I mean!
Also- my 2nd son gets an increased "attitude" when his ears get infected. No other symptoms though. Just mouthy, angry, upset easily and difficult to deal with generally.
Besides that, it doesn't hurt to take him to the doctor to have a once-over.
But I believe there's a reason nobody tells you ferocious 4's are worse than the terrible 2's.

Your not alone, my almost four year old has been doing that sort of thing for several months now. My sweet boy has developed an opinion and wants to share it. I think its just a stage where they are trying to assert themselves and find the boundaries. Unfortunately the end is no where in site for us. I have talked to other moms (very distraughtly at times) and come to the conclusion we all have to go through it. Still, it helps to know your not alone and your not a terrible parent. When I figure out how to get my son under control, I will certainly let you know. In the interim, don't give up. Try different disciplines till one eventually works. Something has got to work.....right? Oh yah, and the tears over the treat thing, don't kid yourself, children know how to put you on a guilt trip! Do you really think he was hurt in anyway by not having a treat? Sounds like your very intelligent son has your number...not to worry, they ALL have our numbers. And those other moms are correct, you did the right thing!