Consequences - Ideas Needed!

The book "1-2-3 Magic" is great -- I think its by Thomas Phelan. He's a big advocate of time-outs (3 minutes for a 3 year old). I used to put my daughter in the bathroom for a time out -- if I put her in her bedroom the first thing she would yell back at me was "I need to go to the bathroom"

Good luck -- and I think this behavior is pretty typical for his age.

You are doing great! Some kids need a little time though. It makes them feel more in control. Instead of right now give him a choice.

Shoes might not be the place to make a stand. How about toys? Then, say something like, "do you want to clean those toys up now, or can I count on you to have it done by lunch time?" Chances are he will choose lunch. He will probably forget. Don't make a big deal. Just clean up the toys but put them up high or in a closet where he cannot get to them. When he asks for them. Tell him (without malice, and with sympathy) that you are sorry but he didn't put them away like he said he would and so you had to do it. You don't feel like cleaning up those toys again so he can't have them for awhile...... don't give in and don't get mad. Just show sympathy.

If you feel you must make the shoes an issue then be prepared to either take him to the park shoeless or forgo the park for a day or two until he gets with the program.

You do not want to hear what I'm about to tell you: This is a preview of what your son's teenage years will be like. This phase may last about 6-12 months, get better, and then reappear with a vengence when he's 13!! He'll be too big to pick him up then, your influence may not be as effective as it can be now, and it will be harder to restrict what he's exposed to then.

So......bite the bullet and teach him these important things NOW:

1. How to self-soothe and be resilient to life's frustrations and disappointments

Shielding him now will cause him to lack the necessary skills later.

2. Boundaries for his behavior, especially where it affects other people

Not picking up his shoes leaves them out for someone to trip over and it makes the house look messy. He may not care, but you do, and that matters. If you're okay with this idea, he might be allowed to leave them wherever he wants in his own room, so that he can exert a little control himself, but keep it within boundaries that do not negatively affect anyone else.

3. Respect for authority

He will be required to submit to various kinds of authority for the rest of his life. Balking usually makes it harder for the balker. If you ask him to do something in a respectful way (make sure you are always respectful, even when frustrated), he must comply in a respectful manner.

Ideas for consequences and gaining compliance:

1. Give choices whenever possible to give plenty of opportunity to exert appropriate control (may lessen the exertion of inappropriate control).

For example, "Do you want to use the red plate or the yellow one?" (Instead of "stop playing and come eat dinner".)
"Do you want to put your shoes in the basket, back on your feet, or in your closet?"
Giving choices sometimes distracts them into thinking about the choices offered and forgetting that "don't do it" is an additional choice.

2. Tell him what TO DO, instead of what NOT TO DO.

Example: My ADHD son used to run off in the grocery store parking lot when he was 3-4. I learned to say, "Put your feet on the white line." (parking stripe) instead of saying, "Don't run off." Why remind him of what he could do wrong? Instead give an acceptable action to concentrate on doing instead.

3. Whenever possible, turn mundane tasks or things he's resistant to doing into a game or a joke.

Example: Races to see if he can put away his toys before a certain song is over.....then at an earlier point in the song. My son thought he had outsmarted me when he told me that he got out fewer toys so that he could finish putting them away faster and "win". (M. won that one!!)

Another example: My daughter never wanted to stop playing and take her bath. One day, I scooped her up and said that she was a little potato that needed to be peeled and boiled for dinner. While she playfully squealed "Noooo, don't eat me!", I "peeled" her clothes off, laid her on the couch and "chopped" her up, and carried her to the waiting "pot"/bathtub. After "cooking" her with the water and soap, she was removed from the tub and "drained" with the towel, and "covered in sauce" with her pj's. For years thereafter, she would often be enticed to the tub or come running on her own to "be a potato". She still remembers that fondly. Now that she's 18 (and far to big to pick up and inappropriate to undress), if she takes too long getting off the computer to take her bath and get ready for bed, I'll playfully threaten to "do the potato" and she'll laugh and move along in simulated fear of being "peeled" in the family living room.

4. Don't threaten a consequence that you don't want to follow through with

I had to learn this lesson over and over again. Choose something that matters to your child and that won't punish YOU. Don't threaten to withhold activities that are good for the child. As a teen, my daughter lost the privilege of dance classes due to far too many homework assignments being left undone (after many warnings that this would happen). She never wanted to return thereafter and lost the only form of exercise that she enjoyed. This was my mistake.

My son had a toy taken away after each infraction, and could only earn them back with periods of good specific defined good behavior. After about the 12th one was taken away and before any were returned, the sweet little monster had the gall to say, "That's okay, I have a lot more toys in my room." We had to find other ways to motivate him, because this didn't matter enough to him!

5. If possible, tie the consequences to the misbehavior.

This means that what happens after the misbehavior is a direct result of the misbehavior/bad choice rather than a punishment.
Example: If he takes too long getting ready for bed, then he's run out of time for a story. Or, if he leaves his shoes out, take them away (assuming that he has others that he perhaps doesn't like as well or are a little too tight). Then, he can earn back the favorite ones by putting his shoes away without being told for the next three times.

6. Discipline immediately.

As kids get older, you can postpone the consequence without hindering the lesson. Telling older kids that you need to think over the consequence and discuss it with Dad can be punishment on its own as they worry about what it will be!

7. Let the punishment fit the crime.

Don't go overboard in your frustration over a repeated offense. Give mild punishments for mild infractions, and more serious punishments for more serious infractions, or for mild infractions that he has chosen to do over and over despite many attempts at disciplining.

8. Make it do-able

Don't make the consequences or rewards take too long to earn or finish. He needs to be able to achieve success in completing it to get any benefit. For example, in the example mentioned above about getting his shoes back, he is rewarded with the return of his favorite shoes after just three times of putting them away, not a whole week.

Good luck, and remember those sweet times to offset these frustrating times!

Diane

You're doing great! 3 is definitely a challenging age.
The only thing I'd do different is try to avoid telling him what not to do.
Instead tell him what he can do. Distract him from what ever behavior you don't want him doing by suggesting other things you want him to do.
Try not to issue punishments/consequences you can't live with.
If he ever learns you won't follow through, he's going to play you for all you're worth.
Occasionally when my son was a toddler, if Dad was home - I'd give myself a time out and go lay down. More often than not my son would come lay down with me and we'd end up taking a nap together.
After a nap, they are much less argumentative, and your batteries are re-charged, too.

Sounds about right to me. I agree with you that the "or we won't go" should always be the very last option, because that's like punishing yourself! We have a "naughty spot" over in the corner, and I would have said something like "you can sit in the naughty spot until you're ready to pick them up. Then we can go. But if you wait too long, we won't have time." It's about learning how to slowly escalate consequences so that you can _always_ follow through.

Hate to break it too you, but it will probably get worse for about 6 months. But then it will get better until, around 4, he will be your normal child again.

Make sure you have a bottle of wine in the house for when you get him in to bed at the end of the day. That's my only "battle-tested" solution!

good luck!

I felt like I was reading my own post or something! LOL!! My son is almost 4 and when he turned 3 1/2 all of a sudden it seemed he turned on us. I felt completely blindsighted! He recently started a parent participation preschool (we had been sitting on the waiting list for almost a year) and the teacher recommended a book called "Positive Discipline for Preschoolers". I cannot tell you how many "ahas" I have had reading this book. It gives a lot of insight into the toddler way fo thinking and many useful tips on how to gets the results you want while also helping your toddler stay in a positive mood. I tried a a few techniques and they were super helpful in "putting out the fire." Good luck!!

Oh yeah, the life of a 3 year old boy... Mine pulls the same things. I usually respond:
"No is not an option!"
"You can pick them up or you can sit in timeout."
"If you don't go potty before we leave, then we call so and so and tell them that we aren't coming." (Then I begin to pick up my phone and he hurries to go pee. I have made many fake phonecalls!)

Solutions, nope, just be consistent and keep trudging through it.

since he is alien invaded I would put alunimun foil on your head so they cant read your mind. :) figured I would make you smile. if you believe in swats now is the time. I swat for absoulte defiant behavior. if not put his nose in the corner and let him think about wether or not he wants to pick up his shoes. and I dont do the 1 minute per age. I do until you decide to mind and quit crying. he is obviously verbal enough and communicates well enough he can stand there in the corner till he decides he wants to pick up his shoes. how long you stand there is up to you. as far as saying you cant make me say your right I cant and put him in the corner til lhe decides you can. this too will pass and then comes the torcherous 10s

oh and I seen an awesome mom at the store the other day her son about 3 or 4 was being defiant so she put him in the floor by the cash registar on a time out. I thought it was genius. she didnt care where she was she still disciplined him. how embarrasing for him and I was so proud of her.

I like the idea of choices and if he refuses the alternate not being favorable but maybe start more positively. Say, Do you want to put away your shoes now or do you want to give me a quick hug then put away your shoes?

For me, it's confinement *somewhere*, which DS HATES (he's 2.5).
If we're at home, he gets a time out in his room. And before he comes out, I make him sit on the bed and talk about why he got the time out.

If we're out somewhere, it takes a little more creativity, but the same concept. I'll strap him in his carseat, or lock him in the bathroom if we're at someone else's house. Time outs are about 3 mins or so, but they're effective for us. Usually just threatening one is enough.
I just have to remember to be totally calm and cool. That gets him to react to me more than if I start yelling (in which case, he's pleased to have gotten a rise out of me).

Oh this is so timely as my daughter in law bless her heart just talked to me about the same thing. 1st know that it is normal the child is testing his new found boundries and hopes that you have set things in motion so he knows what is and is not allowed and safe to feel and do. We did with our 5 children something visual that got all thier attention. We got together for a family activity and made a few rules per the age of child and then we had a container of sand, and a container of gravel and a bag of cement( some places will give you a broken bag of cement free if you tell them what you are going to use it for). We talked about how some rules can be changed and adjusted , some have flexability and some are firm and rock hard and could not be anything but what mom and dad said. for example: 1. I will be a mother in law before being a grandmother 2. everyone will be dressed modest 3 no one gets to be without clothes (we had one that hated wearing pants so we agreed that shorts and shirt were safe gravel areas. 4. no one has the right to dishonor the family name 5. respect one another and make your siblings your best friends 6. if you can't pick up and put your things away then mom gets to throw them away and you don't get them replaced. 7. if we say now we mean now not later 8. the 10 commandments are not multipul choice. When the children were young some of these seemed easy no brainers but as they became young adults it got tougher and once I heard a child tell a friend" we don't have many rules but the ones we have are important enough for mom and dad to enforce" We still have the giant heart cement stepping stone 24 years later that was made that day and the kids all learned to honor the rules and that mom and dad were going to enforce them. I have actually trown things away and gave the child time to think about it but I proved to be more stubborn than they and now that child is using a variation of this theme with his children and another said it makes him a better father and employee. Good Luck never forget that parenthoood is like a theme park ride- lots of twists and turns and around every cornor a lugh or scream but lots of fun along the way.

i think that sort of "real life" consequence such as not being able to go out if you don't put your shoes on is actually quite effective. but as you said, you are punished along with him. and it does give him quite a bit of power over your movements. but if you are able to follow through, it will be a great bargaining tool. apparently he believed that you would follow through because he complied with your request! so congrats on holding your ground and getting your desired outcome. good luck in the future and i hope you get some great advice from the other moms!

For me, the most important - and most difficult - thing is to keep a calm, but firm voice. If possible, don't be distracted by other things while you are in the process of disciplining the child. Most of those "important" things we have to put on hold for child discipline aren't nearly as important as getting the child to learn to do what they need to do. I think you understand that he is testing his power over his own life, and what his boundaries are with you, so you need to stand firm. Sometimes I will 'help' a child who is being rebellious. Other times I find that standing by and just making sure the child does the job on his own is best.

For something little like not picking up shoes, I just use my favorite phrase: "I will wait until you are ready". And then blankly stare at them, like life will resume once this task is completed, until then, the earth has stopped spinning. Lol. They usually get bored with the minute or two of total silence and non activity and do the task. Then lots of praise after they have done it. Oh, and sometimes I will throw in something like, "boy, I hope we don't run out of time to go to the park because I really want to go and play" while we are waiting for them to do the task. Otherwise, I will do the choice thing, like "would you like to pick up your shoes now, or in two minutes?" of course they always choose two minutes, so I set the microwave timer for two mins and we agree that when it beeps, time to pick them up. I'm willing to wait two mins to not have the fight. And it makes them feel like they have more control over the situation. Good luck!

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For something little like not picking up shoes, I just use my favorite phrase: "I will wait until you are ready". And then blankly stare at them, like life will resume once this task is completed, until then, the earth has stopped spinning. Lol. They usually get bored with the minute or two of total silence and non activity and do the task. Then lots of praise after they have done it. Oh, and sometimes I will throw in something like, "boy, I hope we don't run out of time to go to the park because I really want to go and play" while we are waiting for them to do the task. Otherwise, I will do the choice thing, like "would you like to pick up your shoes now, or in two minutes?" of course they always choose two minutes, so I set the microwave timer for two mins and we agree that when it beeps, time to pick them up. I'm willing to wait two mins to not have the fight. And it makes them feel like they have more control over the situation. Good luck!

Yep--two choices...You can A or B.

the A or B choice is great. but be prepared to follow thru with it and don't let him manipulate you into going and doing it anyway. my daughter at that age would have said we can still go I will wear the other shoes lol also don't get to wordy with the consequences. they can't always follow them. we had on our fridge a "saturday box" it was just a cardboard box and as the week went by the kids were told you "if you leave that out it goes into the saturday box" whatever went in there had to stay for at least a week and couldn't come down until a saturday. so if it went in on say sunday it came out the following saturday but if it went in on monday it ended up being in for 2 weeks. taught several things. 1 to pick up stuff, 2 the concept of time 3 the concept that hey mom is not going to clean up my stuff for me or i loose it. the box stayed up there for several years but the stuff thta went in diminished greatly after the first couple months lol.

Thanks for posting this question. My son will turn 3 next week and has started acting the same way. I can't wait to read the answers. good luck with the trying 3s.