Sibling Rivalry Continuing...

Dr Sears has excellent advice regarding behavior shaping, discipline and sibling rivalry. I will link it to his articles, it is a lot like Love and Logic, but he has some very good, specific examples.

http://www.askdrsears.com/?q=topics/discipline-behavior

sibling rivalry:
http://www.askdrsears.com/?q=search/node/sibling%20rivalry

i think three is too old to turn a blind eye. i wouldn't ignore ANY of the bad behavior. it sounds like she's trying to figure out where the boundaries are. the reaction to the wet bed, to me, was a little useless. she did it for attention, sure, but you believe she did it deliberately. therefore i would have made sure she knew i was MAD. as soon as she starts the snarky attitude - if she tells you you are "yucky" and sticks her tongue out at you - oh absolutely NOT. straight to time out missy. we do NOT treat momma like that. and then after time out she apologizes to YOU. it sounds like you're letting it slide if it's something done to YOU. that's not ok either momma! make sure she is being nice, and respectful, to EVERYone, not just baby. and yes, come down hard on her. she's looking for those boundaries. they're a little wishy washy right now, sounds like. there is some room for compassion and empathy, but when dealing with a 3 year old, i have found solid dependable consequence for bad behavior does 100x more than a heart to heart about good choices. good luck!

OMG. Our 4 year old daughter is similar to yours and my husband is BLINDED by his love for her. Ugggg.

That being said, I tell my husband to stop coddling her. She plays him like a fiddle. Me? Not so much.

The pee thing....ohh.....I'd be livid, but before you comment, make sure you can stick to your punishment/consequences. You told her she'd have to sleep in it and THEN fixed everything. She just won that round.

When our kids stick their tongues out, they get soap. Guess how many times they have each done it? ONCE exactly.

There is NO end stage, but you can make it easier by having clearly defined consequences. Also, my DD can be down right MEAN. I will tell her that I am not interested in giving her attention when she is acting badly and that if she'd like to go get a book, I'd love to read it to her and give her attention when she is behaving. Now, I can tell when she is getting antsy and wanting attention, she'll stop herself and ask me, "Mommy, will you read me a book?" No matter what I am doing, I ALWAYS read her the book. Then she ends up going off and playing nicely for HOURS with her 3 brothers.

A 3 year old could care less about a chart. She might and if so, awesome! They DO care about crappy toys. Get a treasure chest full of oriental trading company stuff and when she's super nice to her brother, let her pick out a toy.

We also remind her that whatever she does to her brother, he WILL do back to her. She is teaching him how to treat her. That always causes her to pause. It might not stop it, but she's getting it. Our 17 month old son is now screaming like her and she covers her ears....to which I reply, "I wonder where he learned that???" She gets it.

Wet bed: She should remove all the sheets and carry them to the laundry basket. Not you -- her, with you supervising. Then she should re-make her own bed (yes, you'll have to help). And wash her hands afterward. With the headband: I'd have had her throw the pieces away, sweep up the floor where the mess was (even if there wasn't much there). She needs to take some responsibility for cleaning up her messes in such cases. Don't yell or scream but do be firmer than it sounds like you were -- sometimes just telling a kid you're so sorry they did that isn't strong enough; I'd make it more "You made a choice to pee in your bed, and now you have to clean it up. Your choice was to make the mess so your consequence is to clean it up."

Your behavior chart is a good idea but far too general and soft, frankly. She needs VERY specific behaviors listed, not "I used my hands gently" or "I used nice words" -- what do gently and nice mean to child this young? You think she knows, but it needs to be crystal clear. Make the chart more about specific behaviors and not generic niceness. Consider doing a "stoplight" like preschools and K often do -- she's on green for good behaviors, moves to yellow with one warning for a problem behavior (using specific words like yucky or touching her brother in any way that is not a kiss or pat), then onto red and an instant consequence when she does the specified problem behavior. INSTANT consequence, no over-talkiing it or waiting. Make it something she feels -- find her currency, the thing she will miss most: Taking away a favorite toy (not a lovie, though); taking away that day's TV time; etc.

I agree with those that say she is being 3 and testing things maybe more than being jealous of her sibling but having a new sibling does ratchet up the issues a lot.

Please do not have her share her room! That is a recipe for disaster. She should have her own space if your house has room for it. She will go from sibling riv alry to flat-out resentment that lasts for years if you force her to share her room just to make her understand sharing. She does need a place of her own to blow off steam. When your son crawls in there, go in and scoop him up and take him out -- surely it's not all that safe for him to be in a room with a 3-year-old's toys anyway, and removing him will let her know that you understand it's her space. She has to share toys and time and parents with him, but don't force her to share her room if it's not a necessity because of space. Remember to distract your son the instant you remove him so he doesn't clamor to go back in.

And when she calls you names (and what you describe is name-calling that you must not allow or your son will ape her!), immediately say, "I cannot be around you if you call me names" and leave the room. Don't hesitate or let her see you're hurt - remove yourself (and your attention) instantly. If you can't leave the room, turn your back and do not talk to her until she apologizes. Be clear with her, at a time when all is well, that name -calling means you will have to walk away and not talk to her until AFTER she apologizes. Then when she does it -- be swift and consistent. "I can't talk to you when you call me names. I can talk after you apologize." And leave!

I don't see this as sibling rivalry. I see this as typical behavior on the 3 year old's behalf. And yes, they most likely will be best friend's at 2 and 4, but this doesn't mean they won't hurt each other. Kids this age are more body than words. They lack good impulse control, so a lot of the bad behavior is their caveman ancestry showing itself.

As to the pee on the bed, small children will pee their beds and things when upset. In fact, they will even have accidents long after being potty trained. My daughter had an accident at her 4th bday party, even though she pee trained at 18 months! There is a good chance the pee thing and the headbands were unintentional. 3 year olds do these things. Kids will break things, and break things, and break things.

With that said, I have a hard time with these young ages. My 2 year old wiped his snotty nose on me the other day, and I nearly lost it. They are little monsters that don't know better. They are sweet, adorable, cuddly things, but sometimes they just look like monsters. Usually, though, they do just want to please us, and most of their bad behavior is unintentional.

My best advice to you is to not focus on the bad stuff. Kids do weird things (my 4.5 year old was licking a pole at the park the other day!?!?!?!!?!?). They all do these things. This doesn't' mean you are doing anything wrong, that there is something wrong with them or that some sibling rivalry is going on.

Well, if I had to guess, (and I am) I would say the headband was unintentional (because she was hiding and upset). The pee in the bed she seemed proud of. These are 2 very different attitudes. The headband, I might have been a bit more forgiving (though taking away the hairbows was fine, and a logical consequence--but the lack of softness in your attitude telling her the consequence might have been a bit much, from the way you described it here. But that may just be frustration seeping into your post in general and not how things came across with your daughter in the moment.)
Anyway,
My kids are 3 years apart (almost exactly). I don't recall having a lot of (well, any really) issues with things being "mine", including the room (which actually WAS his when he was a baby). The "mine" stuff didn't kick in until they were much older (like 9 & 12 years), lol. Not sure if we just got lucky there, or if there was something in the way they were introduced and expected to interact with each other. Who's to say?
But, I never tolerated rude or disrespectful behavior. Sticking out the tongue at me? Nope... that is WAY disrespectful. Kids are entitled to their feelings and feeling angry with you is one thing, but acting on it by being disrespectful is another thing altogether. If timeout is your discipline of choice, then I would put her in time out for that behavior. She is old enough to know that she can be angry and say she is angry, without sticking her tongue out at Mommy. And she'd have to apologize for it, and figure out an alternative way to express herself in the future (that is where you guide her and talk through it).
Personally, I didn't use a whole lot of "that hurt my feelings" talk with my kids. I told them "that was disrespectful". It really isn't the same thing. Kinda like in politics: being politically incorrect and 'hurting someone's feelings'... heck, people can get offended by just about ANYthing. But a person can be respectful and disagree about something at the same time.

Rambling here....

Your overall post sounds like your daughter just hates having a sibling, period. Everything she does nice sounds like it is for rewards or to get attention from the parents. This is not what you want to foster in her. Have you sat her down and explained to her that her brother is part of your family unit, just like you are, and Daddy is, and she is? I did that with my son. He was 3. Your daughter is old enough to have this explained to her. I went so far as to tell my (then) 3 yr old one day, when he was annoyed that I was nursing and couldn't play with him, that his sister would have to share "us" (parents) her ENTIRE LIFE, because he was already part of the family when she was born. But that HE had 3 whole YEARS that he didn't have to share attention with anyone. She would never have that. Made him kinda sad for her and gave him a different perspective.
My husband talked to him about looking out for his little sister, and being there to help her (not just to help ME, but to help HER). And we made a big deal when he showed her something new or helped her figure something out or whatever.
They are still very close--pretty much best friends (with the normal sibling bickering from time to time). They are 11 & 14 years old now. And I hope and pray that they continue to enjoy each other's company the rest of their lives. Nobody else will share their same history except each other. That's pretty special. But kids won't just "realize" they have anything special, until they are adults, and maybe not even then. You can point it out to them, though, and they can "get it".
Do you ever talk to your daughter about the bigger picture like that? You might be surprised about how much they can grasp.

Perhaps this isn't just sibling rivalry, it's part of her character development now that she is 3. I have heard of the terrible 2's, but I always say the 3's are much worse!

Okay, she is 3, potty accidents happen at that age. You do not let her sleep on pee'd in sheets, shaming her isn't going to help, you deal with it and move on, let her help change the sheets. As for her sticking out her tongue and name calling, she needs consequences to know how it makes others feel, "That hurts mommy's feelings and make me very sad."

For the headband issue, kids are destructive, they can be taught how to take care of their things. I think you handled that pretty well. Give her chances to earn things back, like "If you put these shoes in the closet, you get to pick out one headband today."

My kids generally all get along with each other. During the "that's MY" moments, I take it away and say, "no, actually it's mine. I bought it for you, you can earn it back, or you can share it."

We are also very big at teaching our kids to protect and love each other. Her hitting and being nasty to her baby should always have very swift consequences.

My daughter's room is her "Safe place". We've told her that her room is "her's" that we will be sure to teach baby to ask permission to come in. Weeks before our son was born we had DD go through her toys and choose out ones that she wanted to share with the baby. Then we put the box in the livingroom. She knows if she comes across something that she wants to give him it goes in the box. Any toy in the livingroom, in or out of the box, is fair game for the baby, so if she doesn't want to share, she has to keep it put away in her room.

Just a few ideas, also my daughter is 6 and our son is only a week old. :) But letting her have "her place" and "her toys" separate may help.

Good luck.

You are doing fine so far. When she tells you that your are yucky and licks her tongue out at you? That must be dealt with too. Because what is cute or ignored and 3 may be perceived as acceptable behavior which won't be tolerated when she is 13. She must be taught how to properly express her frustations and disappointments and being rude and disrespectful isn't the way.

As for the wet sheets and pj's, she would have been right in there helping me change those sheets, clean those sheets and deal with the bed. Yes she is only 3 but she is capable with your help of cleaning up her own messes. If she knows she is responsible for helping clean up she might not like having to clean up and may not make that kind of mess.

Great job on praising her good behaviours and focusing on them but it takes both approaches to develop a well balances individual, both approaches meaning a system of punishments and rewards that are age appropriate and effective. If you can consider what end result you are trying to get to in your daughter, she by her actions will let you know if you are being affective and how affective you are being.

Ultimately your kids will always be siblings but they may not be friends but they will need to be respectful of each other.

I agree with Leigh - so I'll save you time reading my long answer!

I'd also use as much of the same vocabulary with your son (even if some of it's over his head) - "No Johnny, we don't hit in this house" "No Johnny, we don't break things or take toys." Let her hear you saying exactly the same thing to him as you say to her, so she understands these are "house rules" and not "her rules". I realize that redirection is better with a 14 month old but your daughter needs to hear you say these things.

Sometimes we expect more of the older child than that child is really prepared to give. And yes, kids go through irritating phases that make us a little more angry, so maybe she's picking up on some things you are doing unintentionally. Maybe she sees you are more patient with her brother, even though you are doing it because he's not as advanced as she is. But she sees it as favoritism.

If she has to put her own sheets in the washer, can you start getting your son to put his wet diaper in the diaper pail? And then take him to wash his hands? Maybe you can say "I can't wait until you are old enough to wash your own hands like your big sister can." She will hear that some behaviors are desirable in both kids.

And I agree they should not share a room. She needs her own space!

Try to give her some special time when he is napping and stress how much you enjoy it.

I'm sure you've gotten lots of good advice, but one thing that pops out at me in reading this was the fact that you don't like the "It's mine!" "My room!" -- this is perfectly normal development. Before she can learn to share, she has to feel that she owns the item (her room, a toy, etc). Instead of forcing her to share (she is already sharing you -your time, attention, etc.--against her will with her new sibling. You need to help her feel secure that she has her own things and that you are not going to take them away (if she is playing with them safely/benignly). If she is playing with a toy, and the baby tries to take it, be sure to say to baby, "It's Sally's turn now. When she is finished playing with it, then it can be your turn." You are not saying this for the baby's benefit really, but for Sally's so that she knows that her rights are being respected. Then, set rules that when she sets down a toy or walks away from it, that means to anyone that she done playing with it and it is another person's turn. As part of this, when you play with her, don't always give in to her about toys. Example: if you're playing with her, and she wants the toy you have, say "No, I'll using it. You can have it when I'm done." That way, she'll know that the rules are for everyone. She might make a fuss sometimes (or all the time) at first. But it can really help.

My girl's are exactly three years apart. March/Feb. when our second was born my oldest became depressed. Seriously depressed. She wouldn't eat. She didnt want to go on playdates. Thank God we had already signed her up for preschool two days a week. My friends would come over and ignore the baby and try and get her to eat so that they could take her out. We tried everything, nothing worked. It made me so sad. I cried, begged her to to give me the old "N" back. We went from rewarding her when she ate, to punishing her when she didn't. Nothing worked. I was never sadder in my entire life and seriously had thoughts that I should have never had my second. Which I could never imagin!!! Long story short, she had to work out her funk on her own. I think in a lot of ways she controlled us the entire time.

Then there is my sister. 9 years older than me and my brother who are 11 months apart. Even as an adult she would make comments about how great her life was until us "brats" came along. She made comments like that my entire life. Really??? You are a grown woman with your own family! What was I suppose to do, apologize to her for being born? She never got over not being the only child. She has always been the "poor me" type and the "everyone owes me" type. If you weren't available when it was good for her, you were the worst person ever. It was exhausting! We no longer have a relationship.

My daughters are the best of friends and the not so best of friends. They fight for daddy's attention so it makes it a little easier on me. They still have their moments of rilvary. For the most part, it got better once my oldest started big school, but I think it also had something to do with her sister being able to play and talk around that time. The younger sister is the one with anger issues. They are 6 & 9 and I think our youngest wants so badly to be a big girl and she can't stand when her sister tells her what to do. (that's a story for another time!) lol

I really believe that once her little brother gets older and they are more on the same level, it will get better. My one suggestion or comment would be; when she hits her brother or is not nice to him she needs to have a concequence. A favorite toy needs to be taken away & not just for a little bit, but for an entire day. Or it could be not letting her watch her favorite tv show or movie. Time outs do not work, in most cases. Kids are smart enough to figure out that they will be in there for a few minutes, big deal. Concequences work, if you follow through. Do not give in to crying or whining. Do not threatened to take away something that you are not willing to take away. Example; don't say, we are not going to go to the party on Saturday, if you don't behave. If you know that you have to go, no matter what the behavior, don't give that as a concequence.

Good luck!

My girls are 1 year apart. They share everything but clothes. Seriously, one cannot eat without the other "sharing" it. I think encouraging more sharing would be great. And make sure she gets time with you without the sibling around. It's normal for children who are potty trained to regress because of younger siblings being in diapers. The best thing to do is explain the difference to her and make sure to praise her "big girl" efforts. And make sure you're punishing her for hitting or pushing. That can become abusive if it isn't addressed.

Also check out the book Siblings Without Rivalry by Adele Faber and Elaine Mazlish. Also wrote How to Talk So Your Children Will Listen, And Listen So Your Childrem Will Talk.

Siblings tend to get forced together whether they are compatible or not.
My younger sister (by 22 months) and I were NEVER compatible.
We fought like cats and dogs till we finished college and moved away from home.
To this DAY we don't get along and she just turned 49 and I'll be 51 end of Dec.

I don't think it is unreasonable that your daughter have a place (her room) that is a sibling free zone.
She can retreat there when she needs to.

Part of the behavior is just terrible 3's - testing boundaries is what they do, and she will grow out of it sooner or later (and then the younger one will start in).
You are doing alright - just hang in there.
The older one will be starting preschool soon (if she hasn't already) and will be making some new friends - and it's GOOD to get away from your sibling from time to time.

Unfortunately, this will be ongoing. My three are 2 years apart and my DD who is the oldest still wants all the attention. Well it's tough because she has two little brothers that need attention equally. As long as you are spending quality time with here and her needs for her age you just need to keep reinforcing how important she is being the older big sister. As she matures you will see improvements in her behavior :)

I'm having a few issues with my son not being so nice to other kids at school. I had my therapist talk to him for an eval and then he was sent to his room so we could discuss this.
My therapist used to work with elementary kids and their behavior issues. He told me that praising good behavior will get you much farther than disciplining the bad behavior. He recommended that 1) I take him to his own therapist that will sit down with him and get to the root of the problem by doing play exercises that will cause him to open up and discuss how he is feeling. He said that during his eval, when he would ask my son a question and that his eyes were wandering, going side to side. He said this is good because it shows he is thinking about his answer. He said if he were to start looking down that it would mean he is shutting down. 2) Start a reward chart. Kids this age need something visual that they are working toward. begin with earning gold starts for good behavior, everyday. After he reaches his goal of x amount of stars then he gets a small prize. After reaching his goal of x amount if stars in a row, then he can exchange his small prizes for 1 big one. The amount of stars to reach the goal would be their age. Example: goal at the end of 1 month is to get a Barbie doll. In order to earn this Barbie she needs to reach her goal of say 6, 3 gold stars in a row by the end of the month. your daughter is 3, so she would need to have a goal of 3 gold stars. After 3 stars, in a row, she gets a small toy. She collects these small toys that can be traded in for her Barbie at the end of the month, only if she reaches the required of (6) 3 gold stars in a row at the end of the month. Each month, you start over with a different main prize. As she progresses, the goal gets harder with the star requirement increase. So in say 2-3 months she will then need to get 4 gold stars in a row, until the reward becomes a praise instead of a main prize.
I myself wonder if earning the prizes and then taking away that prize for a praise will work. But he said the change in behavior, with the increase of star earnings, should be 2nd nature to him, and therefore shouldn't matter. He said the prizes could turn into a trip to get ice cream, then ice cream with the whole family. Or a trip to the park or zoo, etc... Something that requires him to continue interacting in a positive way, as well as something you would generally do with the kids. He said he won't even notice the change.
We are literally just starting this process ourselves since his eval was just this past Tue.

I also want to note that the therapist believes my son is bored in school and is not patient dealing with kids that aren't as advanced as he is. He gets frustrated when they are doing things slowly. If the teacher says its time to go to the library, he wants to go, right away, while the other kids linger. If there is a project in class, he gets it done immediately, but projects that he already is familiar with, like writing the letter A over n over again, he gets bored because he learned his ABC's and how to write them, already. So sometimes he try's to help the other kids instead of doing his own work.
My point is, maybe your daughter is the same way. She is impatient with her sibling and is shutting him out because she is more advanced. So this would be a great time to nip it in the bud, because she may run into more of this once she starts going to school. And you don't want to end up like me, getting a call almost daily. It didn't start out immediately, I think he needed to get more comfortable with everyone before starting this behavior 4 weeks into school starting.

I hope this helps, the both of us.

Good luck! :0)