What About the Kids?? - Dover,DE

I agree with you 99%. Then there's the 1%, where I learned that "because I said so" (which I vowed I would never say to my kids), is sometimes the perfect answer.

Thanks. Sometimes I do need a reminder that I am not just a teacher at work and that my most important job is to teach my children, not to just say DON'T.
I will admit, that sometimes at the end of a difficult day that it is hard to stop and take the time to do what you should, instead of what is easy.

I love this story.

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A little boy keeps running in the street. His mother calmly says, "Honey, stay out of the street, it's dangerous."

He continues to play in the street, and she continues to warn/discipline him.

One day, his ball rolls out there and he goes chasing it. A car came speeding down the road and the mother screams, runs out and saves her son at the last moment as the car swerves.

Frantic, she says, "I told you never to go into the street!"

Crying the child says, "What's a street mommy?"

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It reminds me, that we have to start young. We not only have to be consistent, watchful and firm, but we must also educate and be loving and model respect.

I strongly disagree with "because I said so" or "because I'm the mom" type statements. They make no sense and are disrespectful and are largely used as a lazy power struggle. They accelerate 'back talk' and inhibit healthy communication. I will never say those things to my children, as I hated it when they were used on me. If we have a disagreement, they deserve to know the honest answer why I think something shouldn't be done and we can work out a compromise of some sort.

I agree with you.
The reason kids at the age of 4 "act out" is because that is there only
way of expressing themselves in the only way they know how.
Now, if it was a 16 year old, well that's completely different.
First of all the age of reason is 7. Where they can actually reason,
contemplate things & understand things. Especially some abstract
things like "because I said so". Um, actually I only now get that as an
answer to a child's question because I now have a child.
Our job as parents is to teach.
My parents mostly (9 times out of 10) explained the reasons why. Why
I couldn't be on the street after dark, why I couldn't have everything I
wanted, why I couldn't trust everyone in the world, why I had to eat
dinner/food instead of just candy, why I had to go to bed at a certain time.
Those answers helped me to understand so that I quit asking & quit
bothering my parents. They did a great job. And believe me, I know they
were tired, stressed out, over burdened etc. (Thanks mom & dad. You
did a great job.)
I try to pass that on to my son explaining every little thing. Why? So he
can "get it", learn and go on to be a responsible, contributing citizen. I
will teach him values, morals, to work hard for what he wants etc.
Am I tired already? Oh absolutely. But I will do it and your post reminds
me to continue on.
It's our jobs as parents to teach. They should have called us teachers
instead of parents. Would have given us all a better idea of what we
were getting into.
My parents ruled w/safety in mind & with common sense, love, patience
and restraint at times I'm sure.
And I turned out just fine thank you very much.
I went to school (college), have worked full time since I was 18 years old while going to college, follow the golden rule, pay my bills on time, pay my taxes, respect people and yes am a contributing citizen of the world.
Thank you for the reminder post as I become exhausted by the end of the day busy rearing my child. Ahh. :)

I absolutely agree. The primary discipline on this site seems to be highly punitive. I try to consider that I am not just raising a child - I am raising an adult whom I hope will be thoughtful, intelligent, questioning and empathetic. So how will he learn this if I expect blind obedience, say 'because I say so' when he asks why and punish him for being a child? I would say obedience is highly over rated - since I have NEVER aspired to be obedient why would I want my child to be?

Couldn't agree more.

I've always been an advocate for giving my kids reasons when I make a request. I usually give both of my kids 2-3 options, but they must choose one.

Another thing that many people don't do is apologize when they're in the wrong!!! I've apologized to my kids MANY times!!! There are plenty of times that I've made a mistake. Our kids need to know we are human and make mistakes too... AND that it's OK TO SAY SORRY!!!

My daughter has come to me with some pretty serious questions. One time it had to do with my mother... I completely understood why she was upset with 'momo'. I gave my daughter the best explanation I could about the situation. I also told her that I understood where she was coming from and why she felt the way she did. (my daughter is 8 now - this conversation happened a couple years ago)

My son is 3. I give him explanations that he will understand. Like if I tell him to "please stop climbing on the counters", I follow up with a, "I don't really want you to fall and get hurt."

If my son feels the need to throw a tantrum, I let him get it out of his system and we have a little chat about why and if it made him feel better.... and so on. I try and explain a better way of showing anger or frustration.

I agree, L.. I see no harm in treating my child like a REAL human being. O. I have been entrusted to care for for a period of time.

IME, those "tight rein, do-as-I-say" parents are in for a RUDE awakening....

I AM one that says parents need to be parents and offer guidance and structure. But I also agree with you, and think these things need considered when you decide what is "misbehaving." Example: My inlaws get furious with my son for wanting a certain cup to drink out of. But I will gladly switch his milk/juice over to what cup he wants, or I'm pro-active and ask if he has a preference. I tell them "Don't you have your favorite coffee cup, don't you take the effort to clean it, dig it out of the dishwasher, etc. just so you can use your favorite coffee cup? Why can't a 4 year old have HIS favorite cup?

"Fathers, do not exasperate your children; instead, bring them up in the training and instruction of the Lord." Ephesians 6:4 (NIV).

I agree with you . . . to me, "training" is not hostile or harsh. Training involves love and discipline (which some say comes from the word "disciple.") It's *not* indulgence either. "Discipline your son, for in that there is hope; do not be a willing party to his death." Proverbs 19:18 (NIV).

Would any of us like a boss who treated us like a pain-in-the-butt idiot? I know I wouldn't. I would hope my leader would take me under his/her wing, and help me to become my best.

JMO.

I know exactly what you mean. This is why i feel punishing with food, or force feeding, spanking and cry it out methods............are questionable.

i think it treats our children like they should be little mindful robots with no feelings or opinions that are valid.

sorry, its just my opinion

Thank you! I totally agree with you. And I am SO sick of the 'why aren't parents being parents' posts. People need to focus on their own kids and stop judging everyone else.

I am the type of parent that I am, plain and simple. How I parent works for me and I don't have to expalin myself and neiter does anyone else. So I don't understand the point of all these post's lately, except that they are written to bash anyone who parents differently than the poster. But I really liked your post :)

Well, L.,

I say these things because my child IS smart. If he were given the opportunity he would try to argue and why me endlessly in an attempt to wear me down until I give him his way. It is necessary to cut him off at some point. I don't want him thinking he can annoy me into getting what he wants. You might see me on the street saying that sort of thing to him and think I am a jerk, but would you think differently if you knew that he has had plenty of explanation, and he knows darn well why?

Kids should be seen and not heard---really I am joking-
I believe that kids have a voice just not in every little thing there shouldn't be choices for every little thing. My kids get choices they are involved in some decisions others are strictly my decision and that is that. I will not explain to my 8 year old why he needs to go to bed- just go to bed- I will not explain why there is no screaming/running/jumping in my house you just dont do it.
I will not allow you talk to me with attitude like you think you can-
My mother in law watched my oldest son for the first 5 years of his life- she believes in choices and explanations with EVERYTHING- It has taken me 10 years to undo what she did- It is my house my rules yes there is some wiggle room but not much

Thank you! Sometimes I want to write and say "To parents of older children who used "command and control" parenting, how did that work out for you? Kids doing well in college? or did they turn "rebellious" as teens?
If you don't take the time to teach your kids to control themselves, or to explain the reasons behind your commands, they spend their time reacting to you, rather than the situation.

Also, I'm sorry, but even the best parents have moments where their kids go out of control. They get hungry, they get tired. And yep, there's probably some mom standing by feeling superior. Get over yourselves, its your turn next.

Your last sentence says it all! Excellent post! I also loved the responses by Momma L and Angela S.

I feel refreshed after reading this!

I agree that while we are disciplining and teaching our children, we need to be talking to them, explaining the whys behind what we do. I want my children to understand that we don't make up arbitrary rules and just dole out the punishment. In our home, we have specific rules that hopefully are backed up by scripture. Sometimes not directly, but if we have given instruction, then they are obligated to obey because of the command for children to obey their parents. Sometimes they do need to obey just because I said so. Other times, we can discuss an issue. But, all along, our hope is that we have explained the reasons behind the thing things we do and the rules we have. Conversely, my father never explained anything to me. The answer was always no, end of discussion. I never understood his heart in anything. I just saw a man who was too lazy to deal with anything (I was wrong in this, but this is how my rebellious heart interpreted the situation.). But, because of that, I want to do more for my kids in this area. I want them to be able to critically think things through. They might not adopt all of our policies with their children. That's fine. But, I want them to at least have something to consider when they start their own families. Now, when you have a child rebelliously demanding why, it is my thought that that child needs to obey. The why will come later. He needs to get over himself and his rebellion first.

You know, before I had my daughter I vowed that I would not say to her "because I said so" when she asked "why" to something. I vowed that I was going to explain my reasoning so she would know that there was a reason behind the answer, and not just a unconsidered negative response. BUT that became ridiculous. She was always very verbal and starting at around 3, she would literally wear me down with all the questions and protests when I gave my reasoned answer to her. It got to the point after a couple of years that I resolved that you can't reason with a child that small and then I knew why my mother always used the "because I said so" answer. It just nips things in the bud without all the frustration! As far as talking back, I do allow my granddaughter to talk to me when she's being reprimanded, as long as it is on point and done in a respectful tone. The only time I use the don't talk back, is when I hear muttering under the breath - that tells me that what they want to say is disrespectful and I shut that down right away. I agree kids need to be respected in order to learn how to give respect, but we as parents need to keep the control.

Well, there's a school of (old) thought that children are empty vessels to be filled up, shaped and molded. I always say my daughter came into the world wiser than I am, but maybe a little of that has to do with explaining what things are, making choices, allowing and giving language to feelings, empathy into action.

I think the way parents, well, parent, has to do with how they feel inside. I think I deserve respect. I think my daughter does too.

I'm with you, L.. Your comments mirror my chosen parenting style, and I'm glad you posted this in addition to your response to the other request. I was raised with a painfully tight rein. I suppose that was a gift, in a way, because it made me seriously question the kind of mother I wanted to be, and I am ultimately glad for that.

And you younger moms probably don't "feel" this, but the world is SO much more crowded than when I was a child. There's so much more friction between people now. How can we not notice other people's choices, and children's behaviors, when we're living elbow to elbow, and virtually everything we do affects somebody, or several somebodies?

I hope we can all try to overcome our natural human tendencies to categorize and judge people according to _______ (parenting style, religious or political or age groups, body type, income, sexual orientation, etc). So I'm really glad you don't say "why does EVERYBODY do X, Y, or Z?" Because even the strictest or most lenient among us love our kids and want the best for them, but may not have had any examples besides the one we are following or rejecting.

The problem with asking "Why do people do _______?" is that there's probably no neat or simple answer. An amazing amount of what people do is reflexive, and they never find a reason to question it. They do it because they are following their parents' examples, or because it fits their personalities or beliefs, or because they are blind to the outcomes of certain parenting approaches, or because they believe kids are blank slates. Or, or, or.

So the best thing anyone can do who's trying to live consciously is to… live consciously. So simple. And so damn hard. But if we do it well, then others may, possibly, want whatever it is we're doing in their own lives.

One of the things I love about mamapedia is that we can ask questions, challenge each other, maybe even question our own beliefs, make reality checks, and sometimes experience the miracle of deliberate change. So, good for you for speaking up. If you get even one parent to ask if there's a better way, you may have made one child's life a little larger.

AHHH, nuts - where is that parenting instruction manual that came with my kids? LOL!
I think some days we do better than others, and for the most part, we all do walk a web between many extremes.
Best question I ever learned as a parent (to ask a kid)- what do you mean? based on that answer you know if the answer is "because I said so" or "hmm let's explore that" or any number in between.
It iis a very interesting observation and interpretation you bring up, for sure:)

great post.....i love to turn the questions back onto my little ones when they say 'why mommy', i ask well 'why don't you tell me what you think.....' , when they figure out why they can't _____, they get a great big smile like they cracked the morris code.

but there are the times when i have to remind them that 'my job as your mom is to make sure you are safe & raise you to be a good person, and you may not understand my answer but you still have to do as I say'.

sometimes those 'simple explanations' are not good enough for a 4 yr old.....just like our job is to guide them etc, their job is to test us constantly & see how much they can get away with.

In my daycare, I have a family who are well-loved. The parents have 2 older children, & I care for the 2 younger ones. Their 1st child was easy, a little bit hyper, but easy. The 2nd one was an extreme challenge & still is. They thought that his behavior was normal for a child who is "not easy". What they didn't realize is that he is borderline spectrum autistic, high anxiety - to the point that they are homeschooling him this year, & probably (my opinion) oppositional defiant. They truly thought this was a norm for a kid who is "not easy".

Unfortunately, he is the leader of their family. The oldest really has trouble coping with him...& prefers isolation over interaction. The 2 youngest are learning all of his bad habits....which I combat daily. & that's what it is....a war zone....a daily need for me to explain & teach a better way to live. All those things that the boy does at home....the 2 youngest try in my home!

I've been with this family for 3+ years now, & they are just now learning how to be hands-on parents. It's a long haul, it's overwhelming at times...but they've learned that they have to teach every single life lesson....or it doesn't get done. It amazes me again & again each time I have to teach basic courtesy to the 2 younger ones. How sad!

i'm going to be interested in the responses I tend to agree with you. Although it seems a fine line to walk when parenting a 5 year old. Everything to them is so instant gratification based. We expect them to behave at things adults cringe at. Yes walk properly and bored beside us for 1 hour food shopping, or yes sit at the table at a resteraunt for 40 min after ur done your meal so the adults can talk. IDK it seems a lot of people think kids should J. be well oiled machines who listen and are never heard. Idk if that makes sense it was J. announced its applie pie and ice cream time in my work caf so i'm distracted...lol

we try to do both. I know that sometimes when I tell my son to do something he doesn't want to and it makes him mad or sad. But I am still in charge he needs to listen, but I do acknowledge his feeling. example: "I know you are mad and its ok to be mad but it is not ok to bite people so thats why you are getting a time out." I am not going to make a long speech about it because he is 2, but I want him to be able to express himself and not hurt anyone doing it.

I agree - it is a balance. Sometimes kids will ask us questions to drive us crazy. But I believe that you don't have to be a dictator parent all the time. Sometimes, yes. But "because I said so" should be reserved for IMPORTANT things, not everyday stuff. I figure a kid should know the "why" of something they need to do so they understand how life works instead of just doing with no thought or understanding. And you can get a long way with trying to understand how your kid feels about something, even when they're little, and help them do what you need them to do while empathizing with their disappointment, etc. It takes more work, but I think it's worth it.

I do think that teaching what TO do is just as important, and catching them being good is important, too. When my DD melted in the dressing room last spring, it was my fault. She was overtired and hungry because I tried to sneak in one more store. And not wanting to leave someplace or stop doing something fun? Totally agree with how that could make her angry, so we do a count down. "DD, in 5 minutes you need to put your shoes on to go to the store." And, really, what does it matter to me if DD wears snowboots in April? Or that she likes the purple coat better, though I don't? She's an individual, too.

Sure, we have our "put your shoes on NOW" moments, but parenting is a balancing act. You try to stay on balance as much as possible. Not too draconian. Not too permissive. Give the kid choices but don't get run over by her whims. Offer structure so she knows what her day will be like and gets her meals and brushes her teeth, but let her have moments within that structure to do her thing. I know parents who won't even let the kids hop down the sidewalk when there's no reason not to. It's going forward, right? Let the kid hop.

When they get to be teens, many battles can be avoided by respecting them and talking to them (even if they pout) vs screaming "I TOLD YOU SO". SS has come to us and said, "Thanks for not being so and so's parents. All they do is scream." Which is not to say that SS hasn't been lectured or lost privileges or whatever, but we try to avoid screaming at the kids. (SS is 21 now.)

In the end, the goal is for them to fly on their own. What you do now teaches them, slowly, how to fly. Try to keep the long view.