Wow Were All the Answers or Remarks Must Be from Young Mothers

I'm very surprised to find this post this morning.

I remember your previous post and thinking "I have nothing to add-- these ladies have, by and large, given good advice."

I don't know if you are new here, DP, but it's usually the case that if the overwhelming majority of replies carry the same message, it's probably pretty close to the mark-- unless you have left out something terribly important... and then, how are we to know?

And lastly, maybe you were taught differently-- but NO ONE has been teaching your grandchild's mother differently. These qualities you want to see in her-- they aren't just picked up through osmosis. And it seemed very clear from your post that it wasn't about "how can I communicate with her so she can do better going forward..." it seemed more along the lines of "how dare she act like a stupid selfish teenager after all I have done for her, how can I tell her that she OWES me...".

So, coming here and blasting this community of moms--who, incidentally, hold a wealth of experience as a group, some moms who have definitely seen a lot and are more seasoned (their children are grown, thriving, and living independently)... well, that really says more about you not getting what you wanted from this post. And maybe if you are coming back to complain after getting the advice you DID ask for (advice, not validation)-- maybe you weren't taught correctly in this regard, you know? Personally, I'd be 'too old for this stuff' too, but being that old, I would have made a plan with the kids as soon as son's girlfriend and baby stepped a foot in the door....

I didn't respond to your original question on this because I had nothing to add to the advice that you received and I figured that with a mess like this in your household, it all goes back to your own ability - or lack thereof - to set and communicate expectations and hold people accountable for their behavior, so anything I would have said would have been wasted words anyway.

If you want to be angry at anyone, be angry first at your son for his part in starting a family that he can't support. And then be angry at yourself for raising that son.

This girl has been living off the charity of others for years - that's a disgrace, but you and she and your son all allowed that to happen. So the first time she got a paycheck that was earned by her with money that was hers, she bought a phone. Could she have made a smarter move? Sure. But is it the worst of everything that is happening in this situation? Hardly.

There's a lot more to fix in that situation than your son's gf buying herself a phone. I'm not surprised that you can't see that.

ETA: and don't fool yourself, you absolutely DID expect her to make a gesture to pay back you and/or your other children. This isn't about a future life lesson, this is about "the nerve of that ungrateful girl to buy herself something after all we've done for her!"

so... you taught your children to pay rent and clean. Maybe you should have taught your children birth control and values. Your son got his girlfriend pregnant and should be taking care of them (marrying her, providing for her and the child, putting a roof over their heads or paying you rent) and all you can complain about is the girl? Shallow.

Don't come around here insulting the women who took the time to answer your question just because you don't like the answers you got. How rude! If you already knew the answer, then you shouldn't have wasted everyone's time here by soliciting answers. But the bottom line is everyone answered you practically in one voice. Make excuses - you make excuses why their answers are bad, you make excuses why this is all this girl's fault (when I would say it's your son's and yours). You got a lot of good answers and instead of thanking people, you insult them. Ignorant.

You failed to communicate your expectations to this girl. It's as simple as that.

You allowed this girl to come into your home.
You allowed her to shack up with your son. Obviously they didn't use protection and had the mindset "it can't happen to me"

I'm NOT a young mother. I just know that I would NOT allow one of my son's girlfriends to move into my home and shack up with my son.

You did NOT set your expectations.
You did NOT communicate with her what YOU expected her to do.
She might have believed a GIFT is a GIFT and does NOT expect payment in return.

You created this mess. Seriously. I'm sorry you didn't like the answers that were given to you.

From this point forward? I would tell her EXACTLY what I expected from her. If she's living in the household she has some responsibility. It's NOT an unspoken rule...not in my home. And it was NEVER unspoken to me while growing up. You are part of this family - YOU WILL HELP...

I didn't respond to your first Q (before you edited it), because, like NeveyGirl, I thought everyone else had it covered.

ESP the one about, now at she has a job, if this is the way she's going to be treated (with people angry at her and demanding hand over her paychecks instead of slowly gaining her independence), to expect her to move out & sue your son for child support.

And Im not a young mother, either.

She's had to BORROW sanitary pads????
Beg rides?
Has had NO independence whatsoever?
Not even had a phone of her own to have any kind of privacy?

My god.

Good. For. Her. That since no one else is helping her gain independent footing as an adult, that she is doing it herself.

Could she have gotten a cheaper phone?
Sure.
But it sounds like she has ZERO experience in budgeting or planning since she has had to BORROW or BEG for everything in her life for 2 years. The father of her child, with whom she lives, isn't even giving her money for basic necessities, and his mother is furious at her for not signing over her paychecks. Wow.

I feel really sorry for this kid.

Well, anytime someone has a temper tantrum on this site, especially a new person, such as yourself, I go back and read what they're flouncing over. In your case, I can tell you flat out, most of the women who answered your post are old bats, just like me. We're seasoned parents and respondents on this site. Almost every person responded that you should have made your expectations clear. That is, in my opinion, a very reasonable way to teach someone. Having a public tantrum on an open website to complain about that person isn't. If she's failing your expectations, then you need to make your expectations clearer.

ETA: I also happen to think your complaints are misdirected. You're upset over having to provide for her and her child. It is also your son's child, is it not? He knocked her up, right? It is also his responsibility as well as yours to take care of this child. While the most polite thing to do would have been to spend her first paycheck on you, I think your anger is misdirected and silly. If your son was a man and taking care of his kid, she wouldn't be under your roof in the first place - don't make it sound like you were going out of your way to be nice to her - it was your child's responsibility to take care of!

Huh?
Your first post was asking how you should tell your son's girlfriend (who was living with you for 2 years) that she was being selfish for spending her first paycheck on herself.
Now you are talking about how she kept/keeps (or doesn't keep) her bedroom neat (whether she pays rent or not is kind of irrelevant).
What I'm hearing from this is you are developing a resentment for having taken this girl in (and your grandchildren) to live with you and she's not expressing gratitude in the form of 1) paying rent, 2) spending what money she's earning in the way you want and 3) cleaning to your expectations.
Room mates are not easy.
Adult women tend to need their own space.
She's not your daughter (or even your daughter in law since she and your son are not married) - you are not her mother.
Since your son is the father of the kids, is he not paying toward child support, paying you some sort of rent for them living with you, somehow contributing to the maintenance/welfare of his family?
At any rate, you need some sort of agreement to guidelines with regard to expectations (which should have been set right from the start) and consequences for failure to follow through.
She might not like changes to the arrangement she's lived with for 2 years.
She might not want to you to teach her anything and what if she flat out refuses any requests you make of her?
I'm not sure evicting her would be a simple thing since she's lived with you rent free for so long - you'd need legal advice for that.
Write out what you'd like to discuss with her - make a list of things you'd like to talk about/negotiate.
Then sit down with her (and your son too) and calmly go over your list, listen to what they say and what ever agreement you come to make sure it's not open ended (you don't expect this to go on forever, do you? They are suppose to move out on their own eventually, right?).
Your list should include goals/benchmarks/steps that will help them work toward gaining their independence.
I'm not insulted nor do I feel like you are yelling at previous responders to your posts, but I do think that communication is not a strong point for you and that makes it difficult for you to get across what you are asking for here as well as how to communicate with your son and his girlfriend.
Write things out, step away from them for a bit, read them back later on and see if you want to edit anything, then you are ready to discuss things.
It's a little like learning to write an outline for a paper.
It helps to organize your thoughts and coordinate your facts/references/feelings.
(I'm 51 by the way and know to have a written agreement in place before entering into a living situation with someone.)

You think you are too old for this stuff? Why? You created this stuff. You allowed your son to move his girlfriend into your home to play house. Did you ask both of them to contribute to the household and their expenses? If not, why? If you don't expect your son to contribute, why the girlfriend?

I'm not a young mom. My kids are 25 and 21. I taught them to have respect for themselves and others. I taught them that an education is the best investment they could make. I taught them to be productive members of society. I taught them that marriage first, then babies. I taught them that they are responsible for their actions. Family will help, but not responsible for their behavior.

I would sit both of them down, say that since they have jobs, they need to start contributing to the household. Lay out your expectations. If they are not willing then I would tell them they must find other arrangements.

You get treated the way you allow to be treated.

I answered your question and I am not a "young" mother.

I stand by my answer.... If you had expectations, you should have COMMUNICATED those expectations or had some sort of agreement drawn up for the young mother (your Grandson's MOTHER) living with you.

Again, if you wanted her to chip in and pay rent and clean you should have COMMUNICATED that. No one can ready your mind.

Does she sound like a lazy freeloader and ungrateful....... yes she does. She sounds like she feels very entitled and selfish and I feel for her son because you know where her priorities lie. STOP enabling them and they may learn to be responsible.

It is time for you to sit down and have a chat with her and your son and COMMUNICATE your expectations. I would also make sure they understand birth control and use it so no more innocent children are put in this sad situation.

your question wasn't so much about the ongoing responsibilities you expected her to undertake in exchange for her rent, but your pique that no one got prezzies when she got a paycheck.
i think you made yourself clear. people just disagree with you. sometimes that's hard to hear.
khairete
S.

45 year old mom of three teens/young adults here.
You said it yourself, "you were taught."
This girl, you took her in for two years, and just expected her to know your values and morals, without ever teaching her.
Can't you see how people would be confused?
You can't expect anyone to know and understand what you want and expect without laying it out very clearly, especially a young girl that your son got pregnant & clearly has nowhere else to go.
You want to know how to teach, to inform, to discuss?
You sit down with her and your son.
You ask them what their long term plan is.
You let them know what kind of support you will/will not provide.
Together you make a plan going forward, including spelling out your expectations re financial obligations/contributions, chores and other help around the house.
It's called communication.

Excuse me? You are upset that people responded to your question and laid the blame solely where it should be...on your shoulders and YOU are upset?

I've got 4 boys. My oldest is a teenager and we're having a rough spot with him. But I would NEVER allow his GIRLFRIEND to move into MY home AND sleep together. UNLESS they were married.

You raised your son. You taught him how to behave. You didn't stop his behavior nor talk to him - it appears - about the consequences of sex.

Your first question was insinuating "how dare she". You ALLOWED IT. That's "how dare she".

I told you in my response to your first question YOU allowed these KIDS to behave like adults and gave them NO consequences. You gave to them. Now you want to change the playbook? HOW DARE YOU!?

I wish you luck. You're going to need it.

I didn't answer your other post because my initial reaction is that you're an enabler and enablers fail to see their contribution to the situation.

If you want someone to help out in the home, you need to make it clear what you want done. And if you want financial recompense, you need to ask for it. You act like you're doing this out of the goodness of your heart....why would this woman think she owed you?

I guess you did not make yourself clear enough. I really think you expected us to read your mind and you expect this slip of a girl to do the same.

As my H always says, Communication is hard.

This girl has much to learn. In two yrs, you did not teach her much under your roof. If you had these expectations of everyone in your family, that would have sunk in.

"If you do not pay rent, then you clean the place you are sleeping..." is another way of saying that there are consequences for your actions. But there haven't been. You cleaned up the mess this girl and your son made.
You made it possible for them to just keep living like they are playing house. If you treat them like children, they will act like children.

I think you made yourself very clear. Of course you take care of yourselves. That has nothing to do with this. You might not like what anyone said on your thread, and you probably will ignore what the majority of people are telling you. As to how old we are? I'm in my mid 50's. My kids are 18 and 21. Does that make me a young mother?

I'm 54 3/4 and am also a grandmother raising grandchildren. I raised my daughter poorly and when she became an adult she turned to drugs and homelessness. She has 7 kids now and only one of them lives with her. I have 2 of the other 6.

I said she sounded immature and in need of someone to teach her. You said you raised your kids to pay rent and do stuff. So why isn't your son paying rent and taking care of his girlfriend and child?

You implied he was upset with her over this, it's his problem.

When it comes right down to it, which I didn't say before because "I" was trying to be nice and get you on the path of being a mother figure to her, you know, helping her learn...your son has his family living with you.

YOU should be getting money to help pay the bills. YOU should not have to be buying formula or clothes or diapers or anything for that baby you don't want to go get just because that baby is adorable and you love him. She can get a ton of that stuff free, there's no reason she shouldn't be getting WIC. The income levels for WIC are not as low as food stamps.

YOUR SON has his family living with you and it's HIS responsibility to provide for them. Not yours. You are offering them a place of refuge, a warm place with food and amenities.

You said he was mad at her for spending her money on that phone, it's HIS job to be mad at her for spending her paycheck instead of joining it with his money to pay their bills. Regardless of what she spent that money on, he still owes you for their living there.

Let him be the man of his family and let him take care of his family. Then when he can't do it because she's an teenager with a brain maturity of a 12 year old, you can step in like a friend and say "Sweetie, it sounds like you guys had a big argument, if you'd like to talk about it I'm here". Then you've opened the door to teach her about money management, about how to share parenting, about growing up. Instead of being the big bad "B" that's always yelling about money you become her best ally and she learns from you.

That's all "I" was trying to say in my post.

*********************************
So, since our answers didn't help out here's another suggestion.

Tell them you want to have a family meeting. When are they both available to sit down quietly and visit (Less dictator sounding than talk).

When you all get together open it up by saying "we've not had the chance to visit about our living arrangements yet and I'd like to get us all on the same page so things can go smoother". Or something along the lines of let's visit about our lives and come up with some positive things we can all do to be helpful and considerate to each other.

Then as the discussion moves along don't mention the phone, that's his business with her and it's between them.

The goal of this family meeting is to get them to volunteer to do stuff for you, they should suddenly realize you're doing so much you can't even sit down and rest all day....poor mom, she needs us to help her because she's been taking such good care of us. Wow, we need to step up!

Manipulate the conversation to go the way you want it to go. Keep reining in the side bars and keep it on task.

The end results should be this:

Gather and take out the trash daily...?

Sit with mom and make the menu for next week...Saturday evening, everyone.

Cook dinner 5 days per week by XXpm...?

Help with cooking dinner 3 days per week...?

Help with cooking dinner 3 days per week...?

Laundry on M, W, F....?

Laundry T, TH...?

Driving the car to transport people to work...?

Amount of money to pay rent/utilities/gasoline...?

Once it's all laid out you can put the poster board on the front of the fridge or on the hallway wall. Where everyone can see it. If they don't do their job on the day/time it's supposed to be done it does not get done. You do NOT have to do their work for them. Keep your laundry separate so you can have clean clothes to wear. Do your clothing on the weekend when it's no one's time but yours. If they don't do their laundry on their days and they don't have clean clothes to wear they wear dirty clothes. Period.

Don't rescue them. Help them grow up. Teach them both because no matter what you said about teaching your kids better and to pay their way, YOUR son isn't paying the way for HIS family or there wouldn't be any problems here.

I didn't respond to your first post but I did read it. If you're wondering how to discuss this issue with the girl, you should take her aside and politely say "now that you're working and earning money, would you possibly be able to pitch in xxx amount of money each month to help with bills etc." If you didn't communicate any expectations when she moved in then you can't really expect anything now. She might be young and oblivious, irresponsible, or whatever, but she's not a mind reader. She probably assumed you were letting her stay with you rent free out of the kindness of your heart because she is the mother of your grandchild. If you expected her to clean/help out around the house, you should have asked her to. Be as indignant or outraged as you want, its not going to change the past two years. Live and learn.

If you taught your son all these lessons then I assume he works and chips in around the house. Maybe you should have asked him for some rent money since it is HIS family that you are taking in.

I just read your other question, it is kind of confusing. I mean she should do more but then it is implied that the baby is your son's baby. Most grandparents do things not for the mother but for the baby. If that were the case your son should have been kicking in all along if he chose to live there with her and not make her work.

I see you see it as you took her in but would you have done it if she was some random stranger or did you do it because she is your son's girlfriend?

Your first question you seemed ticked off that she didn't respond to your support how you wanted it and were upset she spent $400 on a phone. It did NOT sound to me like you didn't expect anything. You did. You wanted her to thank your family a particular way.

I'm in my mid-30s and have two grown stepkids. I know first hand that if you don't initially lay it out what you expect and then enforce it, you can't just expect that they will magically do what you want them to do. If you did not say "you need to clean the house in lieu of rent" then you are punishing her for not being a mind reader. You cannot assume everyone thinks the way you do. If you want x and y, tell them you want x and y. Like now. Okay, so she has a job. What do you expect from them re: rent and formula and other goods? My SS pays rent and buys his own toiletries and much of his own food. We TOLD HIM this. You should have had that conversation 2 years ago with this young woman.

IMHO, you WERE taught correctly and correctly taught your children the same. Again, this is just a sign of the times. Parents always trying to make their children happy, no matter the cost, and not teaching them to appreciate anything because everything is so easily given.

And there you have it: You were taught, and you taught your kids. Your son chose a girl who had not been taught that. You cannot hold her accountable for what she has not been taught.

You took it for granted instead of being the adult and making your expectations known. I don't think that anybody's knocking you for it, but this is clearly your doing and up to you to fix.

I am forty and I agreed with most of the responses that it is not your job to teach her a lesson. Does she have bad manners, yes, but that isn't your fault. I think that she should have been doing something to earn her keep, even if she didn't have money. For example, during college, I lived with my aunt and uncle for a summer while I had an out of state internship. My job was to wash all the dishes and babysit the two young kids for free.

Her spending the money is over and done and not something you should dwell on it. Instead of bringing up that it was rude, you should discuss what she can contribute from now on to the household (money and work around the house). You can teach her about acceptable behavior by example without having to lecture her about it.

The mothers who EXPECT that it is a grandmothers DUTY to help with the grandchildren really need to think about who's choice it was to have a child in the first place. I feel like so many new moms put very high expectations on grandparents. Any help that they give should be seen as a gift and not as an obligation.

I agree with you. Its called recipocation..you do something..I will return the favor.

I am in my 40s. I was raised like this also. I have friends that are younger, the same age and older. Some are considerate and some are not.