Addendum to My Quick Poll to Win Argument with Son

Why do you think being feminine means being passive and being aggressive means being masculine?
Life/relationships are more complex than leader/follower.
My husband leads in some areas while I lead in others and we're happy that way.
My husband would hate it if I were a shrinking violet - my independence is what attracted him to me.
And if he were a puffed up know-it-all all the time I never would have been attracted to him.
It matters not that Jack Sprat could eat no fat and his wife could eat no lean.
Working together they still licked the platter clean.
We compliment each other in so many ways and that's what makes things work well.

I like my man to be the initiator SOMETIMES - not all the time...there are plenty of times I like to take the "bull by the horns" as they say...

What's most important to me is that my man respects me - opens doors and such for me, the true sense of a "gentleman"...pulling my chair out - feminists would have a total fit - but i still like to be treated like a lady..

Oops, sorry I have to give this one to your son. Here is the thing, those of us who are outgoing, okay a bit type A, ya know, the one who is never afraid to do the asking for anything. Well we are more balanced with a man who is calm, introverted a bit, quiet if you will. Sorry but if I were to wait till a guy asked me out I would still be single.

Nope, this does not come down to genders but to personality types. :)

Now as far as the bedroom goes whoever wants it starts it. Usually we are thinking alike.

Just for extra information, I do mow the lawn, fix the car or house if I can get to it first. If Troy gets to it first he does it. Nothing in our house comes down to gender. He will do the dishes if he comes upon a pile of dirty ones. Same for other housework. We also don't keep score of who does what, I never saw the point in that. :)

honestly, I think the entire conversation is bogus. I do not like to define life in definitives, it is too limiting.

I went back thru the responses to your 1st question, & here's what I believe: life should not be defined by male vs. female. Life should be defined by partnership & community within a relationship. Respect & equality should come hand in hand.

I also believe that this applies to daily life, overall family mores, & in the sexual relationship between partners. Respect & equality should define the relationship, not gender.

In today's world, we are a diverse community. Many role parameters are blurred by an increased knowledge of the world we live in....but not by much. Women, today, who enjoy construction & mechanical fields.....are no different from the women who helped expand the Wild West of our country. Those pioneers helped with everything....& that's not any different than some of the career choices of women today!

In my circle of friends/family, we have 2 SAHDs. Both moms are executives, the sole breadwinner for the family....women who are on the road 5 out of 7 days. Both families made the choice to reverse traditional roles to provide a secure, safe, & nurturing home for their children. In both cases, the dads worked part-time/side jobs until they were financially secure to become SAHDs. When looking at both marriages, both are secure & are built upon mutual respect/equality. & thriving sexually, too!

If we flip all of this, I do believe that we have an increased tendency to fall into the parameters of dominance. & I don't mean exclusively male vs. female! What I mean is....when respect & equality is missing from a relationship, then one partner becomes dominate over the other. For some people, that is acceptable .....for others that is soul-diminishing.

If I were having this conversation with my son, I would counsel him to place respect & equality before gender. To me, nothing is more liberating & uplifting to know that I have the freedom to blossom within a relationship, without having to wait for the other person to initiate my movements.

EDIT: after reading the "so what happened", I have some more thoughts. Okay, you've made 2 attempts now at achieving the "answer you were looking for".....why do you have to have that answer? Why are you surprised that we did not answer in the manner you needed?

I think in both questions, your points were clear. You & your son are on opposing sides of an issue, you wanted us to "back you" ....to give you the answer you were looking for....& many of us did not.

I also believe that where you are seeing weakness in your son....his "One Love" will see strength or will the that strength for him. To want to change him, to want to improve what you perceive as weakness will bite you in the behienie. He will perceive your attempts, needs, desires for this change as a failure on his part. What really worries me is that you've now hit us twice with the same issue....& you're still not happy with our answers. Wow....

As for your comments on equality of roles & intrinsic differences between men/women.....I agree that the differences are intrinsic, but not divisive thru the sexes. Men & women can both be creatively artistic, as well as mechanically sound. It's not about the sex....it's about the nature of the beast.

K here's the deal , like I said before , I asked my husband out first.
Just because i asked him out . Does not mean he's any less of a man. or less of a gentleman. And does not mean I don't respect him. Of course I respect him and I believe he respects me more than any of my previous boyfriends. All my previous boyfriends asked me out. And all of those relationships turned bad. I believe it was a lack of respect. We have a 50/50 relationship, it's a partnership. That doesn't mean he doesn't step up when it's needed, he does. I stay home and he is the one that works , but I don't see that has him being in charge. I have had to be here both parents for my kids many times due to the nature of his job. I come from a long line of strong females , that took charge. That's the example I grew up with with my grandmother. That's how I live my life and that's how my family works.

My husband and I tend take the "traditional" roles for our gender. However, when it comes time to change the oil on my motorcycle, I get to do it. I also clean the carbs on my bike. I take the truck in for oil changes and tune ups. Now that I think about it, I do 99% of everything around the house (not just cooking and cleaning, but repairs also).

This is probably due to the fact that hubby works third shift and sleeps during most of the day.

I would say, honestly though, I think the majority of women, while unafraid to take on the "male" role, still want a man who opens doors for her, takes care of the grass and car...and generally treats her like she's a delicate flower.

A delicate flower who can kick butt if she has to.

I didn't respond to the last question - maybe I should have, it might have helped your case but I think the semantics got to me and I'm having the same problem with this question but from a different perspective. When I was young (and I'm older than most on this site), I was definitely more attracted to guys that displayed "maleness" and definitely not attracted to sensitive males. I wouldn't have been attracted to a male that seemed dependent upon me. Now that I am older, I am definitely not attracted to many forms of "maleness", from loud voices to assumptions that I'm going to do things his way to traditional household divisions of labor to sleeping next to someone who has been out with the boys all night (bleeech!) But I also probably still wouldn't be attracted to a man who wanted me to make all the decisions and initiate all the action or who I felt was dependent upon me. However, I am strongly appreciative of the emotional intradependence that we have developed for each other in different ways and I feel centered by our partnership. So...what do you mean by classically male and female roles? If you mean the male works and the female doesn't - a good portion of my daughter's friends have SAHD circumstances and I don't think it's a turn off for them, I think it's an intradependence that works for them. I think there just has to be a balance of emotional dependence in the relationship. I think a man can be turned off by an overly dependent woman and a woman can be turned off by an overly needy guy.

My husband is the primary care giver to our children, does all the laundry and cooking, takes out the trash, and fixes all the boo boos in the house. He has no issues about his masculinity and loves taking care of his family. And I love him for it. I do finances and other household tasks. It's a partnership and there is no more greater turn on than knowing that he is there for me and our family, come rain or shine. And, most important to me, if something happened to me, he wouldn't miss a beat in caring for our children. He's not perfect, but he is perfect for me. That's what love is about, isn't it? Not fulfilling some silly gender role someone else decided was "ideal."

And if your son is a little shy, he will figure it out when he needs to - when he finds (or is found by) the "one."

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I am pretty independent, my husband loves that about me but has admitted he would like it if I was a little more dependent on him for some things. If something needs to get done, I do it as needed. I usually build anything that comes disassembled because I am more mechanically inclined than him, I clean the garage because I am better at organizing than him, I change my own tires if needed though I am happy to let him do it, and check the oil if hubby hasn't done it. My husband does the dishes almost every day, cooks for us on the weekends, and is an awesome dad - he loves babies and I can leave him with the babies without worrying that they won't be cared for correctly. My husband is the primary breadwinner and is working hard to put me through school which will put me in the position of being the primary bread winner when I am done. We make our financial decisions together. And yes, nothing turns me on more than seeing him do the dishes ( I hate doing dishes)! Overall, we are a partners in life and we do what needs to get done to get through life which means we don't have gender-determined roles but a mutual love and respect for each other.

I think rather than trying to pigeonhole people, perhaps explain to him that often in a male/female relationship, the best approach is that the O. better at something is the O. who *should* do it!

I mean, my husband does most of the stereotypical "man" stuff--car maintenance, lawn care, installing things, etc but no O. makes a better homemade sauce than he does--so guess what? He makes ALL of our red sauce.

However, I'm the O. who can more effectively "postpone my emotions" a bit so typically I am better at keeping it together for stuff like informing our child of the death of a pet, visiting a terminally ill person and keeping it from being a total snot fest, etc.

I'm sorry, maybe I'm just not "getting" your question, nor can I imagine why this has to be "explained" to a child.

Ok, I'll bite. I saw it last night but was not sure if we were strictly talking bedroom talk or not...
I am w/ you, Rosebud.
I would prefer him to take the lead. ;)
HTH!

I don't think it matters what the rest of the world want. I actually believe that God has one particular mate for us. I believe that the person will be like us in many ways and polar opposites in others. My husband and I have many reversed likes and dislikes. He's far from the "normal" husband and I think I'm quite far from the "normal wife". But our marriage has suffered and I don't think it's about personality. Our upbringing and baggage we carried into this marriage set us up in the wrong direction early on. But here we are, 26 years later still together and not unhappy. Either of us would agree that we were meant to be together.

I wish your son the best in his search for "the one".

I think you need a daughter. I am surprised your son sat through this conversation/poll. I mean this with a sense of humor.

Maybe he is 'just not that into' what ever girl is around at the moment. Who knows, maybe when the right girl comes around he will decide to make an effort.

Hmm. I didn't respond to your first poll, though I am in the percentage that prefers to be "pursued" most of the time (though not ALL the time, lol). But the way you have reworded your question, regarding the "male roles" makes me agree more with Jo W.

I am a "do it myself" kinda girl. If something is broken, I'll fix it. I don't need to wait on my husband or anyone else, assuming that I think I can handle it or figure it out. I grew up with older brothers and was always the little sister trying to keep up, and I did keep up quite well, I might add. Does it NOT turn me on because I fix the loose doorknobs and hubby doesn't notice them? No. Doesn't affect my being turned on or not. He goes to work every day to provide for our family and leads by example how to be an honest, diligent person trying to fulfill his vocation and serve his neighbor (I know sounds sappy, but it's the truth) and he understands me. He will do his best to do/give me anything I ask for and more than I ask for, because I don't ask much (really, I'm not high maintenance at all).

He turns me on and I respect NO ONE more than him.

I work outside of the home. My hubby is the stay-home parent. He cooks dinner when I am at work, and I cook when I am home, but only because I enjoy it. He does all the food shopping and most of the laundry. When our daughter was in a co-op preschool, he was the classroom parent on our assigned days, and he still takes DD to weekly playdates with our daughter's former preschool pals. I am the disciplinarian and Daddy is a bit of a pushover when it comes to bedtime and snacks. Our roles are quite reversed in most ways. Yet, I still respect him just as much--if not more--than the day I married him. And, turned on? Don't even get me started. He still makes my heart skip...I'm not sure if you asked this question to quell an argument about what women want from men, but most of the women I know swoon over a man who can cook, is willing to clean, can fold a shirt properly, and enjoys reading to his child at bedtime.

i think that a man should be the "head" of the family. they should be the "leader" so to speak. while there should still be respect for both roles in the family and recognition that both rolls play a part and contribute to the family unit that is represented in the home.

Im more turned on by my husband when he "mans" up and takes care of the grizzly, dirty, heavy...oily, etc...tasks in life. I prefer him to initiate sex. Im not sure if id be less attracted to him if he didnt, it hasnt happened. I can say though that if a situation were to arise where My children or I would need protection and he didnt "alpha male" it...i think my natural selection WOULD kick in and id be severely disappointed ........perhaps lose some attraction. Im just being honest. We all have natural responses. I would fully expect my husband to lose some respect for me if i couldnt "mother up" and properly care for our kids.

Its just survival of the fittest.