My DD who is 5 has a social anxiety disorder and I know her anxiety carries over to other things. She does not want to go to the bathroom by herself. She asks me to go with her and if I don't she will not go and will get to some serious whining about it. So, I used a marble system to encourage her to go and that really worked. She got a marble everytime she went to the bathroom by herself. This is just to pee. If she has to go #2 she needs me to wipe her. She has never wiped her own bottom. She says she is afraid of getting poop on her hands. Of course I explained how to do it, she knows she can wash her hands etc.. Today I had to work late and when I came home she instantly wanted me to come to the bathroom so she could go #2. She then showed me that she put toilet paper in her undies because she tried so hard to hold it, because my husband was here and she would never ask him to wipe her bumm. There was some poo on the paper because she could not hold it all in.
When she was a toddler she had encopresis from withholding her stool. We finally got her to go on the toilet but she will not do it alone.
I guess this is a two part question. The marble thing is loosing it's effectiveness or her anxiety is getting worse because she is back to wanting me to go with her everytime. She will pee her pants before going in alone. Sometimes I can get her to take the dog with her and that will be ok. Anything else I could try?
How can I get her to wipe her own butt?
Yes she does have a therapist but I have not really mentioned this much. I guess I have just learned to live with it. I will bring it up to him on her next appt.
Yeah you guys are right - I should just go with her. It just gets frustrating when I am in the middle of something. Wet hands with doing the dishes, just sat down to eat, etc. I think pushing her to do it on her own is just giving her more anxiety. I am going to try just doing it and see if that in itself will reduce the anxiety and hopefully she will start to go by herself.
With the butt wiping I think I will try dry practice runs and wet wipes. Maybe I will not have to go to college with her so that I can wipe her butt LOL
Yes her marbles were tied to a reward after a certain amount she could cash them in for things. Depending on how many she had. They were worth 50 cents each. So if she had 40 she could get a Monster High doll or cash them in early for a Little Pet Shop or something. She would do really well when she was trying to earn something but now that she has gotten her goods she has backed off on it.
I have done the stand outside the door thing. Does not work. She wants me in the bathroom with the door closed (she is worried about someone seeing her on the potty). She also needs the water turned on so that no one can hear her.
She is in kindergarten right now and for the first few weeks she would not go to the bathroom there at all. Then they gave her a special pass where she can use the teachers private bathroom and she will go in there.
I will go into the bathroom with her. You guys have reminded me that she is still young. It's just hard because of the anxiety and trying to decide how to approach each issue. Sometime (like going to school) she needs to be really pushed otherwise, I feed into her anxiety. It's a fine line on lots of things. She will take advantage of things if allowed to. Like using her anxiety as a crutch. She eventually has to do these thing.
We use Cottonelle moist wipes. They're easy for kids to use. I would just go with her. It will pass.
My motherly response is that she has a social anxiety disorder and she's only 5 and I don't see the harm in just going to the bathroom with her. I'd probably bring a magazine or teach her a nursery rhyme and sing a song.
Is there a reason you cannot spend time with her until she grows up a bit more? I'm thinking back to diapering and potty training days and it's just not a black and white, cut and dry event. When a child needs a diaper change, there is a whole lot of attention wrapped up in that diaper change when you think about it. So it sounds to me, she just wants you. Wants you near her, wants your smell, your comfort, just you... so of course the marbles are not effective. They are not fulfilling and warm and mothering.
I'm a big believer on filling up our kids' emotional cups when they are very small. Some need it more than others. I personally would not be bothered by taking any of my 5 year olds to the bathroom and waiting while they do their business.
GL!
Do you have a counselor working with her? If you don't really really need one. Please talk to your ped about this.
I don't think that this is something that one of us can help you figure out. I'd rather defer to a professional.
So sorry you two are going through this.
Dawn
She has a diagnosed disorder; she's seeing a therapist; she had encopresis as a toddler (which in the great scheme of things is not very long ago) -- She has a ton of things going on emotionally and mentally. Please just go with her.
She is still only five, and clearly needs support for more than just toileting issues, so choose your battles -- don't fight this one for now. Eventually you and the therapist must work on it, yes, because when she goes to kindergarten (does she now??) she must be able to use the toilet alone, and it could become a huge issue at school. But for right now, talk with the therapist and get some solid techniques to use on your own.
Is the marble thing tied to some other reward? As in , if she gets 5 marbles or whatever, she earns something like a desired toy or TV show or whatever? Or were the marbles themselves the reward? I would think she needs a more compelling reward because her fear is pretty great. Do not make her wait very long for a reward, either -- telling her "you'll get the reward after one week of toileting alone" is like asking her to wait a lifetime -- start with small, daily rewards and a bigger one after several days, not a whole week.
Again, talk with the therapist and be sure to get specific ideas to bring home and use with her. But do not discount her fears out of your own frustration with tending her.
Try going to the bathroom but not into it -- make a deal with her that you will stand outside the door in her full sight and talk to her while she goes. Then gradually change it to: You'll stand outside the open door and fold towels at the linen closet right there in the hall (or whatever variation works in your home--in other words, you're doing something and mostly in her sight but not right there). And gradually move away. And praise her a HUGE amount when she goes.
Have you also ensured that a light is always on in the bathroom so she is never walking into a dark bathroom? Are there new and interesting books in there for her to look at? (A subscription to a kids' magazine that changes each month is great for bathrooms.) Doing things to make the space light, bright and friendly to her could help, as could distractions in there.
Oh, it's such a hard line for kids with anxiety! My 8 year old son has some anxiety issues, and it's so hard to know when to help him, to ward of anxiety, and when to encourage him to push through, so that he knows he can. My five year old was upset about the notion of wiping himself also--for the same reasons you mentioned--although he is not anxious by nature. I reassured him that he could change his underwear (my anxious son HAS changed his underwear for that exact reason at school, even up til third grade) if he didn't wipe good enough, and reassured him that (sorry; this is gross) even I sometimes don't wipe good enough and there's poo on my underwear. That it's really ok, unless there's a lot of it, and even then, I can wash his underwear and he can change. All of a sudden, then, he was willing to wipe. He still wants us to check him, but he is willing to do it alone, too, if need be, which I think is an important aspect of kindergarten readiness. I would keep in close touch with school--if she can do it at school, she can be worked toward it at home. Are there gradual ways to work her toward the bathroom? Does she take baths in that bathroom alone? Would she sit in there alone with a book or a coloring book--not going to the bathroom? Would she do her hair there? Perhaps getting her comfortable in the bathroom as just a room in teh house would help? Good luck--anxiety is so hard.
I agree that her needing someone to go with her into the bathroom is something that you need professional help with. As to wiping her own butt, I would just have her wipe it while you're there. Have her do it over and over. She'll eventually know how to do it without soiling her hands. Explain to her to wait to wipe until all the poop is in the toilet. Perhaps she hasn't thought of that step. It might help to have her use moist wipes.
My DD didn't want to wipe her butt, so I told her that I would make her a deal: I'll wipe her butt, BUT she has to wipe mine. She looked at me like I was crazy. I explained that it was only fair. She said, "That's gross! I don't want to wipe your butt!" I replied, "And it's just as gross for me. What do ya think? Deal?" I stopped wiping her butt the day she turned 4. I kept telling her, "Ok when you are 4, you are old enough". I make my DD get in the shower when she wets her undies. If it's just a small spot from racing to the bathroom, then I make her rinse them out and get a new pair. She's decided that taking a minute to go to the bathroom is a better use of time rather than cleaning out her underwear or taking an entire shower while she's in the middle of playing. She's 4.
You are in a tough place. Some of this IS manipulation....but I'm not sure how much and every child is different - obviously. You're right - where is the line? Do you go to college with her?
I do this with my child, "Well, if you aren't big enough to go to the bathroom alone, then you are telling me that you aren't big enough to ride your bike." Suddenly, my DD will decide she IS big enough.
The wet wipes are AMAZING. Once my DD had that down, the toilet paper was easier to manage.
Even without anxiety disorder, young kids get scared by themselves in the bathroom. My kids too at that age.
Its just a phase. Then one day they will not be like that.
And go by themselves.
Also, they can't wipe their hiney very well.
Their coordination is not super good.
And so, they typically want help.
So you decide, if you want to or not, or make it a battle or not.
Then, your daughter had Encopresis. This is something you do not want to happen again. It is not, good.
Also, developmentally, at this age they get general "fears" of things/of night time/of the dark etc., because their cognition is changing and their imaginations. And we cannot turn "off" their imaginations. It is typical childhood development.
At that age and older, my kids were like that too.
I was too, as a child.
When you were that age, I am sure you were scared of certain things, even if it didn't make sense to an adult mind.
And just practice with her, about wiping her butt.
Even when she is not on the toilet, you can practice with her.
Just practice, but not making it a "battle."
For example, some kids and even adults, wipe their hiney while standing up, or while squatting over the toilet, or some do it when sitting. SEE which is easier, for your daughter. Everyone is different.
